Is room temperature water safe for wash cycles?

athbr · Jun 13, 2019

Is it safe to use room temperature water (20-24 in my area) for wash cycles in C41 and E6? I'm speaking about washes between chemicals and not just the final rinse.

I know there is an issue of reticulation but wanted an overview of how big of a risk this is in practice.

I am heating my chemicals with heated plates and not a circulating bath. Heating 5+ litres needed for these purposes would present a problem.

thuggins · Jun 13, 2019

It would certainly be best to avoid temperature swings in the process. I'm very careful with the first dev temperature and then let it drift down for the rest of the steps. The biggest jump is between the final rinse and the stabilizer.

athbr · Jun 13, 2019

thuggins said:
It would certainly be best to avoid temperature swings in the process. I'm very careful with the first dev temperature and then let it drift down for the rest of the steps. The biggest jump is between the final rinse and the stabilizer.

Thanks Thuggins. I'll see if I can grock something up to solve this issue then.

koraks · Jun 14, 2019

If you have an electric water cooker, just boil a liter of water and chuck it into half a bucket of tap water or whatever is needed to get you close to your processing temperature. The temperature of the baths after the color developer isn't very critical anyway.

markbau · Jun 14, 2019

For B&W films I found that temp swings of more than a few degrees could increase grain, a sort of "micro reticulation", stands to reason if the emulsion is subjected to swelling or contraction. Therefore I keep all temps to 20 +/- 2 degrees which is not that hard to do.

mshchem · Jun 14, 2019

I would follow the instructions. I salvaged a mixing valve years ago, spoiled me. The suggestion of heating a small quantity and chucking it into a bucket is a good idea.

mtjade2007 · Jun 19, 2019

In Kodak's C-41 process instruction there is no wash cycle at all. It starts with color development followed by bleach then fix then stabilizer. I know some will probably add a wash cycle between color development and bleach. It actually adds a risk of over development and color crossover error. It does give a benefit of keeping the bleach from contamination by the color developer (mainly in PH changes) . But the risk of over development is too much to take. In my opinion the wash cycle should be avoided.

koraks · Jun 19, 2019

A stop bath can be used (which is what I do in any case). This prevents the problem you mention and at the same time allows for intermediate wash steps that minimize carry-over of chemistry. Hence, the best of both worlds is very much within reach.

mtjade2007 · Jun 20, 2019

koraks said:
A stop bath can be used (which is what I do in any case). This prevents the problem you mention and at the same time allows for intermediate wash steps that minimize carry-over of chemistry. Hence, the best of both worlds is very much within reach.

You are absolutely right. I never did it that way though. It's a good idea indeed.

I believe if the wash water temperature is about 20 - 25 degree C it will be OK. The following bleach is not temperature critical. If the instruction says do it for 8 minutes you can do it 10 minutes or even longer. The bleach temperature can be off a bit and still OK.

RalphLambrecht · Jun 20, 2019

athbr said:
Is it safe to use room temperature water (20-24 in my area) for wash cycles in C41 and E6? I'm speaking about washes between chemicals and not just the final rinse.

I know there is an issue of reticulation but wanted an overview of how big of a risk this is in practice.

I am heating my chemicals with heated plates and not a circulating bath. Heating 5+ litres needed for these purposes would present a problem.

a temperature range of 20-24C is an ideal wash-water temperature for B&W. wash efficiency goes up with temperature but to avoid reticulation one should stay below 27C. cold water temperatures of tap water in North and Western Europe can easily be below 10C at which point wash efficiency drops significantly. Nevertheless, if you are interested in maximum print longevity, please conduct a residual hypo test for your normal technique.

John Salim · Jun 20, 2019

mtjade2007 said:
In Kodak's C-41 process instruction there is no wash cycle at all. It starts with color development followed by bleach then fix then stabilizer. I know some will probably add a wash cycle between color development and bleach. It actually adds a risk of over development and color crossover error. It does give a benefit of keeping the bleach from contamination by the color developer (mainly in PH changes) . But the risk of over development is too much to take. In my opinion the wash cycle should be avoided.

Yes, correct if you're using minilab processes.... C-41RA and C-41B.

The full version C-41 uses washes......
Developer,
Bleach,
Wash,
Fixer,
Wash,
Final rinse.

John S

Eric Rose · Jun 20, 2019

My darkroom room temp is 68F in the summer so for me room temp is just fine.

MattKing · Jun 20, 2019

Eric Rose said:
My darkroom room temp is 68F in the summer so for me room temp is just fine.

For colour film?
Some times I think Sean should do some special coding, so that the Black and White subfora are wight, grey and black, whereas the colour sub-fora appear in resplendent colour!

Is room temperature water safe for wash cycles?

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