Is R09 as good as Rodinal?

EASmithV · Mar 16, 2012

I've heard a lot of things about R09 including it doesn't keep anywhere near as long as the original Rodinal did, and it wasn't quite as good.

Can someone please tell me your opinion on these claims?

As my Rodinal bottle slowly drains, I find myself wondering about it's continued availability, Rodinal stand is quickly becoming my favorite developer.

agfarapid · Mar 16, 2012

I'm just about finished with my first bottle of RO9 by Foma, having previously used up my last bottle of Rodinal. I use it primarily for Foma 200 and Fuji Acros with excellent results, same as my old bottle of Rodinal. Try, you'll like it.

Tom Stanworth · Mar 17, 2012

yes, it is.

Ian Grant · Mar 17, 2012

Yes and no. There's Rodinal made in the former Agfa/A&O factory which thanks to John of J&C (and his attemts at deciet) can no longer be called Rodinal. this is no sold as Compard R0(, Blazinol, Adox Adonal etc. This is the new Rodinal formula which has bee manufactured since Agfe and Gevaert merged in the early 1960's.

Then there's Calbe RO9 formerly made by Orwo, they gave up the rights to Agfa trade names (after a monetary settlement) around the time Agfa and Gevaert merged. Calbe/Orwo RO9 is made to an older pre-WWII formula for Rodinal it's not identical and has poorer keeping prperties (maybe down to the type of packaging).

Recepte 9 (R09) was the Agfa formula number for Rodinal, R10 is also a p-Aminophenol developer but uses the hydrochloride rather than the free base (of the developing agent).

Ian

clayne · Mar 17, 2012

It amazes me that even today different companies are still duking it out over name rights for this developer.

Jesper · Mar 17, 2012

Rodinal used to be my main developer until I couldn't get it at my usual source so I switched to R09.
I have not noticed any change in quality.

How well it keeps I don't know but I've never had any trouble with it going bad, but I don't store it for very long

Ian Grant · Mar 17, 2012

clayne said:
It amazes me that even today different companies are still duking it out over name rights for this developer.

Actually they aren't at all, they would all be selling Rodinal if John from J&C had't registered the Trade name in the US and then tried to pass off Calbe R09 as Rodinal, after Agfa failed to renew it.

Ian

PKM-25 · Mar 17, 2012

So I have 8 bottles of Rodinal ( says it on the bottle ) that I bought from Freestyle in 2006, what is left from a 10 bottle batch. 2006 was the year I first got back into shooting black and white, so it was a matter of both long term keeping qualities and economics that prompted me to stick up on it.

Am I better off keeping the Rodinal I have stored for the long run and using R09 for the here and now?
The only reason I ask this is because part of the reason I stocked up on it is that Rodinal is supposed to "Last forever" if unopened, thereby creating one of those safety nets for my long term goals in the medium I want to use if things get weird-er out there....

Ian Grant · Mar 17, 2012

PKM-25 said:
So I have 8 bottles of Rodinal ( says it on the bottle ) that I bought from Freestyle in 2006, what is left from a 10 bottle batch. 2006 was the year I first got back into shooting black and white, so it was a matter of both long term keeping qualities and economics that prompted me to stick up on it.

Am I better off keeping the Rodinal I have stored for the long run and using R09 for the here and now?
The only reason I ask this is because part of the reason I stocked up on it is that Rodinal is supposed to "Last forever" if unopened, thereby creating one of those safety nets for my long term goals in the medium I want to use if things get weird-er out there....

As the Compard etc RO9 is made by the same people who made Agfa's Rodinal in the same plant & equipment to the same formula they are identical, so use up your old stock first.

Ian

georg16nik · Mar 17, 2012

PKM-25 said:
So I have 8 bottles of Rodinal ( says it on the bottle ) that I bought from Freestyle in 2006, what is left from a 10 bottle batch. 2006 was the year I first got back into shooting black and white, so it was a matter of both long term keeping qualities and economics that prompted me to stick up on it.

Am I better off keeping the Rodinal I have stored for the long run and using R09 for the here and now?
The only reason I ask this is because part of the reason I stocked up on it is that Rodinal is supposed to "Last forever" if unopened, thereby creating one of those safety nets for my long term goals in the medium I want to use if things get weird-er out there....

According to http://adox.de/RODINAL.pdf with the Agfa latest Rodinal formula from 2004 You've got 6 months after the bottle is opened.
The original brew, pre WWII Rodinal sold as ADOLUX® APH 09 can hold up to 50 years http://www.adox.de/english/ADOLUX/ADOLUX/ADOLUX/APH09.html

So, all Rodinal based on post WWII formula, (the one with excess of hydroxide) have way shorter shelf life than people generally believe.
Ironically the post WWII formulated Rodinal is being sold for double the price of the pre WWII.

Tom Stanworth · Mar 17, 2012

I've got some Calbe R09 than is four years out of date and has been open for a year. Works lovely I tell you!

fotch · Mar 17, 2012

Ian Grant said:
As the Compard etc RO9 is made by the same people who made Agfa's Rodinal in the same plant & equipment to the same formula they are identical, so use up your old stock first.

Ian

According to Freestyle, dilution of Compard RO9 is 1:25 or 1:50. The older version formula that they sell goes all the way to 1:200 or 1:400. I thought the stuff everyone raves about had the higher dilution ratio. Confused

semi-ambivalent · Mar 17, 2012

clayne said:
It amazes me that even today different companies are still duking it out over name rights for this developer.

The power of branding, it's not illusory. Pragmatic? Well...

s-a

Ian Grant · Mar 17, 2012

fotch said:
According to Freestyle, dilution of Compard RO9 is 1:25 or 1:50. The older version formula that they sell goes all the way to 1:200 or 1:400. I thought the stuff everyone raves about had the higher dilution ratio. Confused

Agfa always recommended 1+25 or 1+50 dilution of Rodinal and thatn hasn't changed since the mid 1960's. People use higher diliutions like 1+100 or higher but those were never Agfa's recommendations (in Europe) anyway.

The reality is that the original dilutions for Rodinal were once in the region 1+5 to 1+20 but that was when negatives were processed to much higher densities and contrasts, and it was used as a paper developer as well.

Ian

georg16nik · Mar 17, 2012

Tom Stanworth said:
I've got some Calbe R09 than is four years out of date and has been open for a year. Works lovely I tell you!

If I am not mistaken, Calbe 09 = ADOLUX® APH 09 which can hold up to 50 years.

fotch said:
According to Freestyle, dilution of Compard RO9 is 1:25 or 1:50. The older version formula that they sell goes all the way to 1:200 or 1:400. I thought the stuff everyone raves about had the higher dilution ratio. Confused

Back in the days before Calbe 09 / ADOLUX® APH 09 was reformulated for 1:50, on the bottle it said 1:40.
So these days both versions of Rodinal are 1:25, 1:50 etc

georg16nik · Mar 17, 2012

Ian Grant said:
People use higher diliutions like 1+100 or higher but those were never Agfa's recommendations (in Europe) anyway.

Yep, for most general purpose films, 1+50 should do just fine.
Instead of 1+100, folks should try dev @ low temps 18°C or so.

EASmithV · Mar 17, 2012

So basically, Compard R09 is exactly like my Agfa Rodinal, so not to worry, and the Adox/Orwo is an older formulation which is just as good albeit different (with similar contrast, tones and grain?)

clayne · Mar 17, 2012

semi-ambivalent said:
The power of branding, it's not illusory. Pragmatic? Well...

s-a

It just comes off as arguing over something that the average public couldn't give a damn about anymore. I can't imagine having the real name will guarantee a significant portion of "market share."

brucemuir · Mar 17, 2012

This makes my head hurt

Roger Cole · Mar 18, 2012

EASmithV said:
So basically, Compard R09 is exactly like my Agfa Rodinal, so not to worry, and the Adox/Orwo is an older formulation which is just as good albeit different (with similar contrast, tones and grain?)

You got it in one.

As for keeping qualities, I have always found that what the manufacturer says and what I get in reality are vastly different. Almost without exception, chemicals last a lot longer than the makers say they do.

Roger Cole · Mar 18, 2012

Roger Cole said:
You got it in one.

As for keeping qualities, I have always found that what the manufacturer says and what I get in reality are vastly different. Almost without exception, chemicals last a lot longer than the makers say they do.

I have some Compard 09 I plan on getting around to trying. (And an old, opened but used only a couple of batches worth bottle of Rodinal - we'll see how it's kept.) I tried Rodinal in the 90s and couldn't get results I liked worth a darn. Any specifics I pointed out would get into an argument with the disciples of the church of Rodinal again so I'll just say negatives at the time looked weird to me, which is both true and utterly undescriptive. We'll see how new ones go.

I also have three 25 sheet boxes, frozen since purchased new, of APX 100 in 4x5. That may be the ideal film to try with my Compard 09.

cmo · Mar 18, 2012

clayne said:
It amazes me that even today different companies are still duking it out over name rights for this developer.

Just imagine Apple had developed this Miracle Water as "Apple Rodinal" - they would have sued everyone who owns an apple tree in Rhode Island because it sounds similar to Apple Rodinal. No kidding. And it gets even worse when you have a boy named MACkie in your family... that is brand and copyright infringement, for sure

There are some more modern alternatives to Rodinal. Moersch EFD is a very good one. It's especially good with classic low and medium ASA films, comes with a lot of sharpness and less grain and lasts a very long time, too. Last summer I used lots of Efke 50 film in 35mm, results with EFD were better than the ones in Rodinal.

georg16nik · Mar 18, 2012

cmo said:
There are some more modern alternatives to Rodinal. Moersch EFD is a very good one. It's especially good with classic low and medium ASA films, comes with a lot of sharpness and less grain and lasts a very long time, too. Last summer I used lots of Efke 50 film in 35mm, results with EFD were better than the ones in Rodinal.

I agree about the Moersch eco film developer characteristics, although both devs are in totally different leagues.
Rodinal is a single shot, hundred years old formula for classic vibes. Probably the only developer that is available in its pre WWII and post WWII formulation since they work the same but yet different - go figure.

EASmithV said:
So basically, Compard R09 is exactly like my Agfa Rodinal, so not to worry, and the Adox/Orwo is an older formulation which is just as good albeit different (with similar contrast, tones and grain?)

The original brew Adox/Orwo/Calbe gives a bit more punchier tones than the new soup.

fotch · Mar 18, 2012

Ian, thanks. I think I got it now. I just ordered some film from Freestyle and held off ordering this because of the confusion. Will pick it up on my next order as I would like to try it out. Thanks again.

Is R09 as good as Rodinal?

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