Is Photography Dead?

[jamusu]

Is photography dead? Notice I did not say film photography, but photography.

Last night I was taking some night shots at the medical center in my city. They are constructing a new building and the metal is exposed with lights hanging from the ceiling. It was a foggy night and they emitted an ominous glow.

Minutes later, a woman pulled up, rolled down her window, took a clear look at me and drove off. I knew she was watching me. I continued to take pictures and she drove up again and began circling the parking lot while on her cellular phone. I knew that she was calling the police. I did not leave because I did not want her to write down my license plate number.

Around ten minutes later, the campus police arrived and asked what I was doing. I told him that I was an amateur photographer and was taking night shots of the building lights. He said that it was against the law. I then told him that I did not know that it was against the law to photograph in the city. He responded by saying I was on private property and it was against the law and asked for my drivers license.


His sergaent and another officer pulled up moments later. He then ran my drivers license. After talking back and forth they explained to me that since the terrorist attacks security is heightened and if someone looks suspicious they have to investigate it.

I then lost it and asked what was suspicious about my taking pictures in the clear open and well lighted area. What act of terrorism could I commit with a film camera (pentax k-1000)? I told him to look at my address and he would see that I lived only three minutes from the medical center. I also offered to give him the film, but he refused.

I asked for their badge numbers and names and they became angry and said that I was blowing the incident out of proportion. I responded by saying if you truly believed I were a terrorist you would have seized my equipment and would not have refused the film when I offered it to you. After a slightly heated discussion, they eventually gave me their info and drove off angrily.

I have read about similar incidents on APUG. What options have we left as photographers to be photographers? Have we any at all?

Jamusu.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

There are lots of places and things to photograph that don't require or encourage the intervention of jobsworthy rentacops. That said, keep fighting the good fight and photograph whatever you want, and don't take any bs from those who want to stop you.

 

[Andy K]

Where did this happen? What country?

 

[copake_ham]

Why did you "lose" it?

They explained what they were doing. Clearly they were trying not to escalate the situation but simply needed to say that they'd investigated a "reported incident".

They likely surmised immediately that the whole thing was a waste of time - so it probably would've been best to just have kept your cool.

 

[Ralf]

Where did this happen? What country?

Jamusu spelled center with "er" and wrote about using a driver's license as an ID, so I'd guess this happened in the US. However, I don't think it matters much because terrorist hysteria like this happens in almost all countries now, sadly.

 

[BobNewYork]

Don't think he really lost it. He was told he was breaking the law by photographing - he wasn't. And why on earth would any law enforcement officer have a problem supplying his badge number?

I fairly recently watched a German TV crew taking footage of NYC suburbs from a commuter train. The Police approached, told the crew they could be arrested and that they would have to confiscate the tape. This was a 3 man film crew, with a $200,000 camera, (hardly the stuff of espionage!) who immediately showed ID when asked. I asked the officers, (very politely, I might add) if it was true that they could arrest these guys and was threatened with arrest myself for "interfering with an officer in the course of his duty."

Bob

 

[jamusu]

Copake Ham,

I guess I should clarify the part about losing it. I did not yell or fly off the handle, but rather asked the questions that I mentioned in the post. They knew that I was not a terrorist. The area was well lighted and I was in the open. I was less that 50 feet from the main road to the entrance of the medical center.

After proving them wrong they pulled a technicality because my drivers license is expired and would not let me drive off and said my vehicle would be towed if I did not have two people to come and get me. It was 11:00 at night and I had to call my brothers who were in bed. I could have left, but I did not want them to call the real police. They were abusing their authority if you ask me because they knew they were wrong.

Jamusu.

 

[AdamKap]

Don't think he really lost it. He was told he was breaking the law by photographing - he wasn't. And why on earth would any law enforcement officer have a problem supplying his badge number?

Yeah, that struck me odd as well. Almost seems as if they were trying to intimidate him, rather than just the whole 'it's private property, etc etc' spiel.

-Adam

 

[tim_walls]

Yeah, that struck me odd as well. Almost seems as if they were trying to intimidate him, rather than just the whole 'it's private property, etc etc' spiel.

-Adam

Quite. I don't know about the US, but in the UK at least it's not against the law to photograph even if you are on private property - landowners can do a lot of things, but not yet make laws. (Specific exceptions exist - such as railways, who are granted the right to make byelaws by act of parliament.)

You may well be breaking the law (trespass) if you don't leave the private property when asked to by the landowner, of course. But that's different to "it's illegal to take photographs because it's private property."

 

[jamusu]

Andy.

I live in the U.S.

Jamusu.

 

[Andy K]

George, if you're happy bending over and presenting for jumped up rentacops that's your prerogative, many others here take a different view.

 

[jamusu]

George.

Are you a medical center security guard as well? Do you photograph while in uniform? If so, might you have one I can borrow? Just kidding.

Jamusu.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I wish you could have gotten the womans car licence plate #. Then you could have reported her for harassing you!



PE

 

[jamusu]

Photo Engineer.

I attempted to do so, but it was too dark outside.

Jamusu.

 

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

Just to ask the annoying question: does "medical center" in the USA imply a hospital, and thus a public building, in the sense of being public property like the street? You know that there's not a lot you can do without authorization when you are actually standing on private property, do you?

 

[jamusu]

Mhv.

It is a hospital/medical school.

Jamusu.

 

[Rlibersky]

I have to agree with George on this one. How many of the same people would complain if the Police didn't show up when some one calls and something did happen. I have not had to deal with renta cops but have sometimes had to show an ID to the Police. Has always ended with sorry to bother you, but we had to check it out after we get a call. I'll say "No problem officer" and go back to shooting. On the other hand I have not been asked on private property yet. Would probaly leave if asked. Then find a spot to photograph the subject from a public area.

I walked out on to the 35W bridge one day when it was completely closed for repairs, with the 8x10, and took a picture. In noway was what I was doing legal. I figured I would take the fine. Even then they told me I have to leave and waited for me to pack up. This was 1- 1/2 hr after I got out there.

On a side note the bridge went down a 3 weeks later.

Wait I've said all this before. Dam George you are good.

 

[Christopher Walrath]

Photography is not dead. Just a greater than average amount of other's brain cells, so it seems.

 

[Allan Swindles]

jamusu, shoot first, answer later, then at least you have your pics. The world has gone mad.

 

[tim_walls]

I walked out on to the 35W bridge one day when it was completely closed for repairs, with the 8x10, and took a picture. In noway was what I was doing legal.

I'm curious - why was what you were doing not legal? What law would you be breaking?


I ask that out of genuine interest by the way, not sarcasm. I was just pondering how that could be illegal over here, and I can't think of how (which doesn't mean it isn't, of course.) The only 'crime' I can think of which one would be committing would be trespass - except as far as I know in England & Wales trespass isn't a criminal offence (it's a matter for the civil courts, if the landowner can be arsed to take you to court.) In Scotland on the other hand trespass is criminal - so I'm genuinely interested to know if that's the case in the US (or if not, what other law you might be breaking.)

 

[jamusu]

My fellow Apuger's.

The purpose of the original post was not to figure out who was right or wrong, but whether or not photography is dead as we know it. I listed the scenario of what happened as a means of explaining the situation. Maybe I should have mentioned this originally.

At the end of the original post I posed two questions: "What options have we left as photographers to be photographers? Have we any at all"?

It seems to me that if not yet dead, photography is on life support and dying a slow death due to the many restrictions that we as photographers are now faced with. Have we any options left? Or is photography as we know, or have known it soon to be lost forever?

Thank you,
Jamusu.

 

[Rlibersky]

Standing on a federal freeway taking pictures is illegal. It is not like standing on road. If there was traffic I would be putting myself as well as others in danger. Because it was closed they let it go with a you can't be out here.

 

[scootermm]

they have a job to do and they did it.
If someone calls the campus police, the campus police (as part of their job) need to respond to it. Thats commonplace.

I speak from experience, I have had this happen more times than I can count. I have NEVER had any issues or even heated discussions. If you take a calm and cordial tone with them, inquire about what issues there are, what laws are being broken, etc etc and do it in a polite and cordial manner you're likely to find the situation completely simple to deal with.

I say this in regards to being out in the open, but it has held true even when I've been trespassing, alot of times I'm on private property when I am shooting alot of the stuff I enjoy shooting. Even then, and even when firearms have been pulled on me, I've been able to quell the situation and politely either leave or more often than not, continue shooting after a good long discussion. In texas its damn near impossible to be standing anywhere that ISN'T on private property.

best advice, don't get heated at the rentacop/campus police because you are upset that a random woman called you in (thats what it sounds like from your initial post) or because they were doing their job, a$$holes are in every line of work and usually can be talk through things with.

in regards to photography being dead?... No.
As long as we all keep shooting, the photographic heart beat keeps chugging along.

 

[Sean]

Jamusu, also be sure to check out Kevin Bjorke's forum: http://www.photopermit.org/

 

[Allan Swindles]

tim, possibly health and safety regs. You know folks, very often, if you have doubts, it's better to find someone and just ask if it's OK to shoot a few pics.. Most times you'll get a positive response, 'cause the guy thinks he's really important, particularly if you take his photograph and his crew. (Meanwhile the baddies could be 'round the corner planting bombs!). Seriously though, in these times, does it really matter if we are questioned about our activities? I detest the term 'jobsworth'. These people are at least DOING the job for which they are being paid - probably not a lot.