Is my Fotospeed LD20 "kaputt"?

I recently returned to lith printing using LD20 which I bought over 2 years ago, in large volume, 2 x 5 liter. I print on Forte PW14. I do not have much luck with it. Developement doesn't seem so explosive as I remember. I can get good, solid blacks, but not the explosive infectious development I hope for. Upto now I used 100cc A + 100cc B in 2 liter of developer, without extra Bromide, Sulfite or Old Brown. Does anyone know what "symptoms" herald the demise of undiluted LD20? Any advise would be welcome, aside from the obvious note, that I should print more, instead of hoarding material.

I use 1 a 1 b - 8 water with old brown mixed.

you are using 20 water

not sure if this is the problem as I do know many here use a very dilute dilution.

Have you got good infectious development with that paper batch before? Are the A&B solutions still clear?

If it's any help, I printed with some LD20 on the weekend that I opened in December 2014, and it behaved fine. I use a similar dilution to you. I think it's got a pretty good shelf life, being a divided developer. Probably a fair bit of sodium sulfite in there as well, which acts as a preservative.

I would try again with a paper you know gives good results, or compare it to a fresh batch of LD20.

Out of curiosity, where did you get the 5L size? I hate buying the small 500ml boxes, it's too little.

Bob,
I did use this dilution many times before. Tim Rudman, in his book, says he goes up to 2 x 100cc in 5 liters.

Marco,

I used it with PW many times, with good effect. I bought a large pile of it when the demise of Forte was announced

I bought the LD20 here, then at a better price, even with postage to Holland. I also got tired of the half liters and counted on the longlivety of unmixed LD20
http://http://www.ag-photographic.co.uk/fotospeed-ld20-lith-developer-5l-1461-p.asp

my LD20 was still going ok last time i used it, and that's been open a couple of years.

Interesting question. I've certainly bought and used 5 litre stock bottles of LD20 which I have used for a year or so until finished and they have worked fine. I always thought that the idea of keeping A and B as separate solutions meant that the stock would have a long life. However, a few months ago, a friend gave me her opened bottles of LD20. They did have an expirecy date which had been about a year previous but I tried them out thinking it would be OK being lith dev. Not at all! Didn't work, took ages to come up and then was full of spots. So fair enough as it was old dev, and that's why they have a use by date on, so will stick to fresh stuff from now.

Well, if the paper has proven good for lith in the past, but you're not getting results, it makes sense to blame the developer. If it's shot, then it's shot. Pitch it and get some fresh stuff. Maybe next time decant it into smaller bottles, or just make bigger trays of it and try and use it up faster. Lith printing is a tricky thing to be frugal with. Time is the big cost, followed by depleting stocks of old paper like PWT. Chemistry costs are low on the list.

Maybe give it one more quick try with a negative and exposure time that you know has worked in the past. If there's still no joy, move on.

Good luck!

I think I owe you guys a follow up on my quest. I have found that my poor results were due to bad practice instead of bad developer. Having abstained from printing for a while. I was so eager, that I started developing in developer that was to cold. I use a dish heater to bring my developer up to a temperature of more or less, 25 degrees Celsius, but now I was to impatient and probably started of in developer of about 16 degrees. This must have been the cause of the weak blacks, which I tried to counteract with increased exposure, which did decrease contrast. Now that I curve my impatience and give the dishheater time to do its work, the LD20 and my beloved PW 14 lith print like never before. Sorry for the stupidity. I just post this follow up here, in the of change anyone else falters due to impatience and sloppy practices...