Is Metol toxic?

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Doc W

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I am trying to get my black and white photography as green as possible. Yah, I know that sounds funny.

My grandson wants to learn film photography and is concerned about polluting the environment. My most-used chemical is Metol so I though that I would start there. He was asking about caffenol but I have no experience with It always seem to me that the major problem would be inconsistency but, again, I have no idea

Is there a source somewhere that might list typical photographic materials and any related related toxicity issues. What about substitutes? Alt-printing, etc. Perhaps we could get something going here.
 

koraks

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Is there a source somewhere that might list typical photographic materials and any related related toxicity issues.

The MSDS of the products you use are a decent starting point to get a vague idea of what you're up against. Then use the CAS numbers of the compounds of interest and Google those for a little more information.

One of the problems is that 'toxicity' is really a vaguely defined term. What's the concern - toxicity to humans, other mammals (pets), aquatic life, the environment in general? How toxic does it need to be for us to be worried about it, how much do we actually use and discard of it, how do we discard it and can we dispose of it in a way that makes it less harmful...?

Before you know it, you end up doing an LCA on photographic processing and I assure you that very little photography will be done anymore at that point - you'll be way too busy studying!

This is not to downplay the risks and concerns associated with darkroom chemistry. Far from it. But it's a caution to (1) remain reasonable, which I admit is a very subjective term, and yet I deliberately choose it and (2) to be clear on what you want to achieve/which principles you hold and then try and do the best you can to strike a workable compromise. In the end, a compromise it will always be. The most sustainable option is to dig a grave before you procreate...

Having said that:
Xtol and clones. Can't get better than that without resorting to caffenol.

Absolutely. There are also 'eco' developers that rely on the same vitamin-C (ascorbate) + phenidone combination. While phenidone is probably no less toxic or dangerous than metol, only about a tenth of it is generally used in photographic formula compared to the amount of metol that would otherwise be present. Ascorbate of course is not considered a hazard and as such is a nice replacement of the nastier hydroquinone.

Another area of interest is fixer; while fresh fixer isn't particularly harmful and could in fact be used as a fertilizer, used fixer contains silver salts that are an environmental concern. So dispose of your responsibly. It may help to let the majority of the fixer evaporate (set it out on the porch; anywhere with a roof over it is fine, really) and then take the sludge to a disposal facility.

In the end, analog photography is really a massive munch of photochemical processes, which is also true for alt. processes, so it's literally a case of 'pick your poison'.

Keep also in mind that regular photographic materials all rely on the tried and tested silver-gelatin combination, and this means that film and paper are not vegan or vegetarian. This used to be a non-issue in the past, but I increasingly hear questions and concerns about sustainability and animal welfare. Photographic gelatin is to the best of my knowledge never 'organic' and not specifically sourced to be very sustainable in any way; it's just very pure (and mostly porcine, so not halal and kosjer, I imagine).

Maybe all this is a good cue to have a talk with your grandkid about making choices in life and the inevitability of compromise, and of balancing your own interests (and pleasure, satisfaction) with the interest of other people and entities.
 

miha

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Also don't dismiss coffee's high carbon footprint.
 

Mark J

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I had a check recently using Wikipedia and checking the safety datasheet for the LD50 level for this and Pyrogallol and Phenidone.
Metal is not very toxic, you'd have to drink quite a lot to get seriously ill.
I think its main risk is causing an allergic reaction ( over time ) , but I didn't have any problems a few years ago when i used metol developers. Some people might.
( ps. Pyrogallol however is at least 10x more toxic, but is still fine if you're careful with it )
 

reddesert

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Keep in mind that "toxic" can mean it will harm you if you drink it. You already have a lot of chemicals in your house that meet that definition, like cleaning products, or household bleach. You get around this problem by not drinking bleach. Developers are generally less harmful than bleach, and you can put your hands in most developers without problems (unless you are susceptible to contact dermatitis, and probably excepting pyrogallol and Amidol). But you don't drink them.

There is another axis of environmental responsibility that includes stuff that could be damaging in the long term if poured down the drain. On this axis, most developers are fairly innocuous; they rapidly get oxidized. The common chemical that should be disposed of responsibly is, as mentioned above, the silver sludge in used fixer.
 

Kino

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Not to be a cantankerous old fool, but you might find a nice way to frame the fact to your grandson that most single copies of a computer or a smart phone require more water to manufacture than most photographers will ever pass down a drain in a lifetime. Not to mention the chemicals and other byproducts that are added to the waste stream during their manufacture and disposal as well.

It all depends on your frame of reference and how equitably you wish to treat the actual subject.

Mind you, I am not against either one but people should acknowledge the facts...
 
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Nicholas Lindan

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Pyro & its relatives are 'organic' developers: Pyrogallic Acid is made by boiling oak tree galls; Catechol is the stuff in apples and bananas that makes them turn brown. Most developing agents are 'substituted phenols,' which are made in plants as anti-oxidants and insecticides. Hydroquinone, which causes bad vibes in California, is the active ingredient in skin whitening cream.

The only problem with Metol is that it can cause skin sensitivity - but you really have to work at it.

My mother was a physician at a local hospital - one day the hospital photographer came to see her about a rash on his left shoulder. She couldn't diagnose it, but asked to see him go through his normal working activities and noticed he slung a towel over his left shoulder to wipe his hands dry and mop up small spills. Bingo! "Don't put your towel over your shoulder," she told him. Rash went away. She didn't know what chemicals were responsible for the rash as it really wasn't relevant to fixing the problem. I remembered the story when I read about Metol causing rashes after lots of exposure. The hospital photographer had probably been slinging the towel over his shoulder for 20 years with no problems at all and he never suspected it could be the source of his troubles.

Except for used fixer, B&W chemicals are largely benign. Used fixer is a problem as it is loaded with silver salts - but the amount of silver generated by the average home darkroom isn't going to cause any problems. You could probably drink used fixer - hey, colloidal silver is supposed to be good for you - it will, however, permanently turn your skin blue over time.
 

Nicholas Lindan

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Vaughn

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Metol can cause alergic reactions, with some people gaining sensitivity with use over time. Just read Nicholas' post saying the same....
 

takilmaboxer

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Good chance to tell the kid about scale of use; a home darkroom won't generate much waste. Just avoid un-needed contact with the chemicals. (Consider the environmental pollution it takes to deliver the product by truck.)
But it's a good sign he's asking!
 

halfaman

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There are plenty of formulas using phenidone and ascorbic acid. Gainer's PC-TEA is as simple as it gets regarding formulation, Ryuji Suzuki's DS-10/DS-14 have more components (all low toxic) but are probably easier to mix.

A totally exahusted/oxidated standard Metol-Hidroquinone developer is normally a very mild toxic. A good way to dispose is by leaving it in an open tray outside, air will oxidate what is left active and evaporate it.
 

Revenant

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I am trying to get my black and white photography as green as possible. Yah, I know that sounds funny.

There is literally a developer made by Flic Film in Canada called "Black, White and Green". It is based on PC-TEA which has been mentioned by others here.
 

Maris

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Is Metol toxic? Back in my professional career I was a government scientist working on poisons in the environment. Here are official toxicity numbers for Metol:

Inhalation toxicity not tested . Metol is non-volatile.

Oral toxicity LD=50 is 1578mg/Kg tested on rats not humans. LD=50 is the dose that will statistically kill half an exposed population while the other half recovers and survives. If humans and rats are equally susceptible (big assumption!) to Metol a 70Kg man would have to eat about 110g of pure Metol to have a 50% chance of dying. That is a huge dose.

Skin toxicity tested on rabbits not humans LD=50 is 7087mg/Kg. If rabbits and humans are equally susceptible to Metol (big assumption!) a 70Kg man would have to spread about 495g (about 1 pound) on himself for a 50% chance of death. That is a huge dose.

The numbers are right but are they meaningful in a practical sense? What about chronic rather than acute exposure? Are there particularly sensitive individuals? Are there admixtures (potentiators) that enhance the toxicity of metol? Questions like these make answering the "simple" question "is something toxic?" a vexed matter indeed.

For comparison the LD=50 for ordinary aspirin tested on rats is 200mg/Kg. But who fears aspirin?
 

DREW WILEY

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Allergic reactions to metol are well known. Keep it off your skin, and always wear nitrile gloves when handling darkroom chemicals. Otherwise, over time you might gain sensitivity to it, and end up re-labeling your metol bottles, "Powdered Poison Oak" instead!
 

Kino

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Allergic reactions to metol are well known. Keep it off your skin, and always wear nitrile gloves when handling darkroom chemicals. Otherwise, over time you might gain sensitivity to it, and end up re-labeling your metol bottles, "Powdered Poison Oak" instead!

Yes, I have that sensitivity. And the rash feels just like Poison Oak or Ivy, for sure...
 

Craig

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Water can be toxic if you drink too much of it, but on the other hand it's essential for life. Many other things also fall into that category, like iodine. As with everything, it's about balance and moderation.
 

mshchem

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2 grams of Metol in 1 L working strength D-76. 8 rolls per liter, 250mg / roll. I wouldn't pour your used developer into the household aquarium. I don't know if there's any real problem with this stuff. I use XTOL, Kodak rapid fix, Kodak Hypo clearing agent, Ilford Bromophen for prints. I do use Selenium toner but replenish it, never throw it away.

It's a good thing to be thinking about these things. XTOL gets rid of the Metol if that's a concern. I suspect growing, roasting, transportation and energy regarding coffee is worse for the environment than D-76 etc.
 

alanrockwood

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Additional information. The lethal dose for Mouse is several times smaller than for Rat: 0.565 g/kg for mouse, oral dose. (reference: https://www.carlroth.com/medias/SDB...QyODgyM2IyYjFlMGY1MDk1ZWE2ODA1MjBmOTFmNjkzYzM)

So, if the same LD50 applies to a human then the lethal oral dose for a 70 kg human would be about 40 grams, which about one third of what it would be if using the LD50 for rat.

I don't think the LD50 is known for humans. However, one lesson from this is that since mouse and rate have a very different LD50 it is a little risky to assume that the LD50 for humans is close to either that for rat or for mouse.

Anyway, there don't seem to be many if any reported deaths from exposure to metol in photographic labs, so I think the risk is pretty small.
 

Rudeofus

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If you look at toxicity of Metol as quoted here in a few postings, it is looked at in its pure form applied to digestive system or skin. However, if Metol is dumped e.g. down the sink, it doesn't stay Metol for very long. It is a reducer after all, and Oxygen is nearly everywhere.

If you don't dump a 100 gallon tank of D-76 into the sink, but just a liter bottle, we're talking about a few grams of Metol in a huge system with Oxygen, so these few grams of Metol have a half life time of minutes or hours, not days. In the concentration, in which they will appear even in a septic tank, they will most likely not cause any poisoning or anything.

Yes, there were lots of cases of neurodermitis associated with Metol. This was not caused by the Metol itself, but by a byproduct (p-Phenylenediamine) created during production of Metol. Newer articles (i.e. less than 20 years old) claim, that Metol is no longer made that way, so current batches of Metol should not even cause this allergic reaction any longer).

When I brought my old chems to the haz mat folks once, I asked "What will you do with these?". They told me "We're going to bring pH to 7, then dump it down the drain.". To people in the field the high pH of some of the liquids is more problematic than the possible toxicity of the chems! This makes Caffenol much worse than D-76.

There are some chems you should probably really avoid, like Selenium toner or Pyrogallol (which is extremely toxic and goes straight through your skin). The Pyrogallol is more a threat to you than to the environment.
 

DREW WILEY

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Rudeofus - why then, does current metol still cause a miserable itch? I think you're a little out of your league here. A smart person avoids ALL skin, eye, and inhalation contact with darkroom chemicals. Even those considered so safe that they're used as food additives - sodium sulfite - can cause serious allergic reactions in some people. Toxicity and carcinogenic issues are a whole other level. But disposable nitrile gloves are so abundant and cheap that I don't understand why anyone would ignore them in the darkroom.

Hazmat rules vary regionally. Please don't make loose generalizations about those either.
 
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