Is Mamiya 7II MF as good as 8X10?

jimgalli · Feb 20, 2008

mikebarger said:
Jim, I'd guess the price of Universal's just went up about 30%

Mike

LOL, maybe I should start a thread, something like Lament for the Mamiya Universal!, and show a bunch of good scans about 10 days before I advertise it for sale.

Greg_E · Feb 20, 2008

Ian Grant said:
However the second issue is the method of printing, a digital print made using modern RIP software hardly loses anything at larger print sizes. I've had large A0 size prints (just over 30"x40") made for clients and been dumbfounded at the quality of the images.

Ian

OMG!!!! Someone else that finally understands! I've given up suggesting that if people want better prints that they use a high end RIP because it just seems like I am wasting my time. When the image is right on, be it digital or film, printing to larger than expected sizes can be done.

Ian Grant · Feb 21, 2008

Greg the important part that everyone else missed was the "printer" was looking at the prints not the original 6x7 transparencies, and comparing them t mentally to what he'd seen made from 10"x8" film.

This isn't the place to discuss hybrid, I don't use it for any of my own work, and only rarely commercially. What it does show is that using a combination of technologies far higher quality prints can be obtained from smaller originals compared to a few years ago.

Ian

DannL · Feb 21, 2008

jd callow said:
I can't, but Bob Carnie can from a 10x10 enlarger onto 30x40 ciba/ilfochrome - He can also do a hybrid version.

So how is that accomplished? How does he do it?

David A. Goldfarb · Feb 21, 2008

DannL said:
So how is that accomplished? How does he do it?

Well, with a 10x10" enlarger he can just project an 8x10" color transparency in the traditional way onto Ilfochrome and process it normally.

Bob also has a Lambda printer and can make digital prints from scans or digital originals onto Ilfochrome or Fuji Crystal Archive.

JBrunner · Feb 21, 2008

David A. Goldfarb said:
Well, with a 10x10" enlarger he can just project an 8x10" color transparency in the traditional way onto Ilfochrome and process it normally.

Bob also has a Lambda printer and can make digital prints from scans or digital originals onto Ilfochrome or Fuji Crystal Archive.

Nothing in color compares to a well done Ilfochrome, IMHO, and JMO. Doing a big one from 8x10 is really appealing, in allot of ways.

Harrigan · Feb 21, 2008

The modern Mamiya 6 and 7 both have the optical advantage of not being limited by retro-focus optical designs that are required for many other cameras, especially in the wide and super wide lenses. This really allows for super lenses that can resolve to the practical limit of what is possible. Of course you need really great optical designs and manufacture to produce lenses of this quality. I have also found Mamiya optics to be generally under rated and others possibly over rated....

brian steinberger · Feb 21, 2008

I own a Mamiya 6 used to own the 7II, and I can attest to the fact that these lenses are simply the sharpest lenses I've ever worked with, and that includes all my 4x5 lenses, other medium format lenses and 35mm equipment. I only makes sense that the rangefinder design allows for more ideal placement of the lens. Having no mirror is a huge advantage for the rangefinder. I've never used Hasselblad lenses, but I've heard great things about the Zeiss glass, especially for an SLR.

I'm a sucker for medium format rangefinders though....

cotdt · Apr 29, 2008

My 4x5 lenses are simply not that sharp. They are mostly Tessar designs and my sharpest lenses give 50 lp/mm. Maybe with better lenses I can do a real comparison but at this point, the Mamiya medium format lenses make sharper pictures even with less film area. I'm measuring over 200+ lp/mm with the kit lens on Adox CMS20 with my 100x microscope. The problem is that these lenses are diffraction limited at their wide open aperture and can't be stopped down at all lest they lose resolution.

orto · May 1, 2008

sanking said:
Well, no, but . . .

I won't mention any names, but last week I was in a high end custom lab, in the company of one of the top printers in that lab. The printer, on seeing some 30X40" digital color prints, asked the maker, Are these from 8X10"?. The maker replied, No, Mamiya 7II.

The originals were Velvia transparencies, drum scanned.

I looked at the prints carefully, and had I not known they were from Mamiya 7II transparencies I would definitely have thought them to be from large format.

Sandy King

It doesn't surprise me. What it says is that at a certain format size and a lens quality the border between the two examples is not clearly distinguishable, that's all I see in it. I wouldn't make any much philosophy about it, be it to the right or to the left.

dpurdy · May 1, 2008

Last week I was at a custom place as well and looking at a guy's 20x24 color prints I asked if they were 4x5 as they were absolutley sharp. He said no just from his Rollei SL66. Which means they were cropped from a 6x6.

keithwms · May 1, 2008

Sandy, it doesn't surprise me at all. Running the numbers, some of the Mamiya RF lenses are doing 100 lp/mm right across the frame, so if we assume ~50 lp/mm (average) for 8x10, then the the mamiya chromes should be at least comparable to almost 5x5". Throw in lens parallelism and overall camera stability and its role in achieving sharper chromes... then this is a reasonable assertion that you make.

I have for several years believed that my mamiya 6 lenses deliver 4x5 results, also based on drum scans. Now, if one doesn't drum and instead enlarges traditionally to the same final output size, then I think the 8x10 chrome will bake the MF for sure.

mark · May 1, 2008

JBrunner said:
Nothing in color compares to a well done Ilfochrome, IMHO, and JMO. Doing a big one from 8x10 is really appealing, in allot of ways.

I stumbled across some ilfochromes I had done a few years ago, the other day. I am inclined to agree with here.

Is Mamiya 7II MF as good as 8X10?

jimgalli

Greg_E

Ian Grant

DannL

David A. Goldfarb

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JBrunner

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Harrigan

brian steinberger

cotdt

orto

dpurdy

keithwms

mark

Is Mamiya 7II MF as good as 8X10?

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