is it worth it?

wharris · Aug 14, 2013

ok first of all im not really a rangefinder kind of guy, I shoot on my mamiya 645 af and I love it. the problem is that when I bought the 645 AF I know that I would have to sell my mamiya 645 pro TL. Not sure if anyone is familiar with the Pro Tl but its a great camera...I have been offered a M3 with a summicron 50mm/f2 dr should I go for it???? the kit I would be trading is a mamiya 645 pro TL with a 150 F4 and 80 1.9, a waist finder, a metered prism finder, two 120 film backs, a power drive and a manual film winder. I know I could prob get about 900 for the set up. Is this a good trade, I have already shot on the M3 is wants to trade and everything is in working order. any input is welcome! =)
Im posting a few shots that ive taken with it so far...

www.darkroomportraits.com

Nathan Riehl · Aug 14, 2013

I don't have a Leica... yet... but Collectiblend says that a M3 with a lens is about $1000-1100 in good condition.

wharris · Aug 14, 2013

thanks, collectiblend looks like what ive been looking for =) love your site BTW great work!

Bill Burk · Aug 14, 2013

I think you should shoot with manual, classic cameras like the Leica and Rolleiflex. Go for it, get rid of the more automatic camera which probably doesn't suit your style as well.

wharris · Aug 14, 2013

Bill Burk said:
I think you should shoot with manual, classic cameras like the Leica and Rolleiflex. Go for it, get rid of the more automatic camera which probably doesn't suit your style as well.

yea I'm on fence about it but not sure how I feel about looking through a rangefinder lol... i guess im not used to it, does it grow on you??? ... and the mamiya af was a killer deal i really bought it more for the faster shutter speeds and the data imprint on the boarders =)

Nathan Riehl · Aug 14, 2013

I agree with Bill. In my experience, manual focus always yields better results. I even use manual focus lenses on my digital SLR. I had the choice between a N90s and a FM2n and I chose the manual focus body. Never regretted my decision ever. I do wish I had an autofocus medium format setup just to compare it to my Bronica kit and my Yashica-D, but it seems like my options are too expensive. The Fuji GS645 seems like a good choice, but it's still not cheap.

As for the M3, I'd probably trade my entire collection for a good Leica kit. Unfortunately, things don't work that way. I say go for the trade.

MattKing · Aug 14, 2013

Are you sure you don't want the 80mm f/1.9 available for use on your AFD?

wharris · Aug 14, 2013

MattKing said:
Are you sure you don't want the 80mm f/1.9 available for use on your AFD?

see and you had to say that didnt you lol... I do love that lens but I can always dig up a few cameras that ive collected to buy another, but man its a sweet lens!

summicron1 · Aug 14, 2013

hard to give you advice on this one -- an M3 and 50mm and that 645 you are talking about are apples and bananas, at least as far as I know.

What do you like to shoot with? A rangefinder requires you to mentally visualize the depth of field effects and might nudge you towards smaller f-stops to be safe, whereas an slr lets you see the depth of field.

And so on. I use an m3 a lot, and also a Leica SLR (several models). Each has pluses and minuses for different jobs. I tend to not like automatic on my cameras -- I find myself having to out-think it and work around it too many times.

Buy what you will use and like. Buy what gives you what you want. Only you know the answer to those things.

Those test shots with the m3 are stunning, by the way.

Bill Burk · Aug 14, 2013

wharris said:
yea I'm on fence about it but not sure how I feel about looking through a rangefinder lol... i guess im not used to it, does it grow on you??? ... and the mamiya af was a killer deal i really bought it more for the faster shutter speeds and the data imprint on the boarders =)

I predominantly used SLR for many years then found Rangefinders worked well for me. Pretty soon you "see" what the camera sees no matter what kind of camera it is.

Fortunately the Leica Rangefinder is the clearest and easiest to snap onto focus of all. And with Parallax correction, you don't cut people's heads off. It's not exact framing for critical compositions like lining up a cross through a picket fence. But not many compositions require that kind of precision. Then an SLR or View Camera is better suited.

zsas · Aug 14, 2013

You do know that the f1.9 is pretty much like a f1 lens in 35mm....

Don't you already have a lynx 1.4 too?

wharris · Aug 14, 2013

zsas said:
You do know that the f1.9 is pretty much like a f1 lens in 35mm....

Don't you already have a lynx 1.4 too?

you make me sound like a camera whore haha.. and no I sold it didnt use it as much, plus the rangefinder was weak and couldn't use it in low light which made it almost impossible to focus with. And yes I do know ... I think thats the only reason I'm on edge about trading it..

heres a shot from the 1.9 I did 2 weekends ago...

I guess the thing is which will hold up more value... cause i have to sell the mamiya pro tl either way... well trade or sell... if I dont like the leica as much as I thought I would I can always sell it for what I got the trade for because it holds it value correct???? the Mamiya pro is a bit harder to sell..

Bill Burk · Aug 14, 2013

Oh, 1.9, I guess that is a special lens you might miss. And I don't know if you will miss having your dependable shooter.

At least you aren't swindling anyone.

Maybe you can strike a deal where either of you can trade back even-steven if either has remorse. That way if it's meant to be, you'll have the Leica, and if not, at least you'll have had it for a while.

zsas · Aug 14, 2013

You couldn't get me to get rid of my 1.9 for anything. When you look at that portrait above - ask yourself what should it take to replicate that magic in a M3.....

I bet, could be wrong, you'd be on the wrong side'a the trade....

Just my biased-I-love-my-1.9-opinion....

wharris · Aug 14, 2013

Bill Burk said:
Oh, 1.9, I guess that is a special lens you might miss. And I don't know if you will miss having your dependable shooter.

At least you aren't swindling anyone.

Maybe you can strike a deal where either of you can trade back even-steven if either has remorse. That way if it's meant to be, you'll have the Leica, and if not, at least you'll have had it for a while.

you make a good point but the guy is a leica shooter and fall in love with 120 when I let him borrow my rolleiflex 2.8 =) so im sure he isnt going to want to trade back.. worse case scenario I sell the leica and buy a 1.9 to go on my mamiya 645 af and I have some extra cash in my pocket for film or what not =)

NB23 · Aug 14, 2013

I like your images. Too bad the girls aren't topless. A Leica is hard to resist, even for models. Maybe that's all it takes for them to go topless in front of the camera, after all?

Brian Legge · Aug 14, 2013

Looking at compariable ebay sold prices, the kit you are offering would be around $550. The Summicron DR goes for $900 on its own and the M3 in the ballpark of $500-700 depending on condition.

On a purely financial call, I'd take it in a heart beat if the M3/DR is in good condition.

dorff · Aug 14, 2013

I would keep the Pro TL and the 80/1.9. I actually own both an AF-D II and a Pro TL, and both of the lenses you mention. Of the two, I use the Pro TL a lot more, because of the 80/1.9 and because of the easier manual focus. The AF sucks on the AF-D, so I tend to put my lenses in MF mode. But I miss the split screen when I do that. Leicas are great, but they are not the beginning and end of all photographic equipment. The bigger frame counts for a heck of a lot, especially if you are going to use slightly faster film. Nowadays, Acros and TMax100 are about the only film I'll put in a 35mm camera. But the options are manifold when moving to 120.

Maybe NB23 has a point, though. You can't put a price on that .

darkosaric · Aug 14, 2013

wharris said:
is it worth it?
M3 with a summicron 50mm/f2 dr [/url]

Yes. You live only once - go for it !

TheToadMen · Aug 14, 2013

If you can spare the money and if the Leica M3 and lens are in good order, go for it!

It will be fun to shoot with this camera. The Leica M3 is one of the best M-models according to meany people. I use a M4-2 and M7.

And if you decide the Leica isn't it for you in a year or two, you'll be able to sell the M3 as easy/easier than the stuff you traded it for.

And if you decide the M3 is the camera for you, you can always get some Voightlander lenses for it if original Leica lenses are too expensive.

markbarendt · Aug 14, 2013

There is no doubt that both cameras can do good stuff, but, in my mind, given you have described yourself as not a rangefinder guy, it doesn't sound like the Leica would have been on your wish list or that it will suit you in the long run. Given that, if I were in your situation I'd only take the Leica if I thought I could sell it for more easier.

vpwphoto · Aug 14, 2013

I'm an SLR guy... but enjoy rangefinders for whatever reason.
The 6x6 Hasselblad is my "high yield" system. As for AF... I make images professionally (100% of my income) and I use an old AIS 105 1.8 Nikkor and a 55mm 2.8 Nikkor for more than 70% of my paying images on AF Nikon Digital bodies. So that should tell you my regard for AF. AF does serve me well for shorter 16-35mm focal lengths.

vpwphoto · Aug 14, 2013

TheToadMen said:
And if you decide the M3 is the camera for you, you can always get some Voightlander lenses for it if original Leica lenses are too expensive.

Just the 50mm. and some 35's. I just don't get the 50mm cron prices. Then again, I understand economics, I just can't justify a grand for a "user" lens and 2 grand for a nice slightly used used one.

Especially when an 80mm Zeiss for a Blad is less than $450...

Tim Gray · Aug 14, 2013

Like Brian said, it sounds like a good trade based on money, as in the M3 + 50 should be worth more than $900. Assuming of course neither of them needs to go in for repairs.

I say this as an RF shooter though: Not sure you will gain a lot in terms of image quality -- it's probably a step down going from 645 to 35mm. Though there is more to photography than sheer image quality, which is why I shoot 35mm

Thomas Bertilsson · Aug 14, 2013

One thing I don't understand:

1. You say you MUST sell the Pro TL.
2. But you are OK trading it for an M3.

Why do you have to sell the second Mamiya? That I do not understand. A back-up body and lenses is invaluable to have.

I love my Leica. And I love my Pentax KX SLR equally. The 'Leica thing' wears off pretty quickly, and it becomes a reliable box that holds film. In the end, it's the pictures that matter. If you think you can make better pictures with the Leica, then go for it. If not, then why not keep what you've already got? You're just making it more complicated with two different formats and cameras. What purpose does it serve?

is it worth it?

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