Is it possible to use x-ray film fixer with Neopan 400

cameralover · Jan 21, 2009

I'm quite new in this area and try to develop my skill on B&W process. However, to economize my budget cause i'm still a student, i plan to use fuji x-ray fixer in my lab but i have no idea whether i can use it. The label is shown as " fuji hunt automatic fixer & replensher". Actually I plan to use x-ray developer of fuji to process my film (Neopan 400 as usual) as well but I'm not sure I can. Anyone who have the experience please give me advices.

Thank you very much

Ian Grant · Jan 21, 2009

Xray developers are usually high energy/high contrast so not suitable for conventional films.

Xray fixers should be fine but test it first. Many x-ray fixers were acid hardening fixers.

Ian

Cor · Jan 21, 2009

Xray Fixers work fine, I use Tetenal Roentgen Superfix, works perfect for film (DILUTE 1:4) and paper (DILUTE 1:9). I once looked up the MSDS sheet for this fixer, and it was a bit weaker that standard B&W fixer. No hardener AFAIK. I test for exhaustion regulairy

Best,

Cor

cameralover · Jan 21, 2009

Thank you very much. It's mean I can use the fixer but have to dilute, right? But How do i know what concentration I have to dilute? Sorry for stupid question but I'm really newbie.

Thanks for any answer.

Ian Grant · Jan 21, 2009

cameralover said:
But How do i know what concentration I have to dilute? Sorry for stupid question but I'm really newbie.

Thanks for any answer.

It will really depend on the fixer type, try the recommended dilution see how long a piece of unexposed film takes to clear, try again at twice that dilution if the time to clear is too long say roughly over 30 seconds then it's probably too dilute.

Xray fixers are generally designed for high throughput, and recycling through a silver plating unit, so may be heavily buffered and quite acidic. But they do vary so unless we know the type it's hard to be specific.

Ian

JBrunner · Jan 21, 2009

I would assume you must have access to these chemicals for free, because cost savings over conventional fixers and developers would be small, in the scheme of photographic expense. I personally would recommend off the shelf standard chemistry to someone just starting out. The variables with experimenting cross purpose will simply be a loose canon to someone unsure of what to expect in the first place, and will likely cost much more in the way of film and paper. A gallon of D76 and a gallon of fixer will set you back all of ten bucks. Pennies a roll.

Ian Grant · Jan 21, 2009

Often commercial developers & fixers were sold in larger packaging, I used to buy Suprol (dev) & Amfix from May & Baker (now Champion) in 25 litre containers, about 5 gallons (or maybe 6+ US short measure gallons). This allowed substantial savings.

Jason makes a good point if you have little experience you could end up making wrong assumptions & mistakes. Once you've gained experience then you can make comparisons properly. However if you can say exactly what X-ray fixer then maybe others can help you with more relevant advice.

Ian

Simon R Galley · Jan 21, 2009

Dear Camera Lover,

Do not use it !: It is not a camera film chemical, its meant for machine processing, I know you are a student and photography is expensive but do you want to ruin a $ 5.00 film to save 20 cents ?...its a false economy, honestly I do not know where you are based but buy a low cost film developer and fixer its a much better option, when you are more experienced you can save money by making up your own chemicals all the APUGGERS here will help you..

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

cameralover · Jan 21, 2009

Thank yor very much for all answer. So I will buy new fixer, however, I still plan to make paradinol and stoper (just diluted-acitic acid). Actualy I am a biochemical student and really familiar to prepare my own stock reagents, so i would like to prepare developer and fixer by myself as well if i can . However, Really appreciate with APUG, all of you are very kind, Many Thanks.

Ian Grant · Jan 21, 2009

Get yourself a copy of the Darkroom Cookbook, 3rd edition, by Steve Anchell.

Ian

nworth · Jan 21, 2009

It will work, but watch out. X-ray fixer is very concentrated and very powerful. Over-fixing in x-ray fixer will bleach the shadow detail of your negatives before you even know that it's happening. I've seen the Kodak variety bleach prints very noticeably in less than 10 minutes. Simon's advice is well taken.

Ian Grant · Jan 21, 2009

Over-fixing in any fresh rapid fixer for around 10 minutes will cause some image bleach as silver is dissolved, this will happen particularly quickly with warm-tone papers.

Ian

cameralover · Jan 21, 2009

Actually I plan to make 1:4 dilution and will do clip test as well. But as a newbie, does film use to do clip test have to dip on developer first or just put it in fixer? Please forgive me if I ask you a stupid question. Thanks all.

trexx · Jan 21, 2009

If you develop then the silver halide is converted. There would be no silver halides for the fix to clear . So no place the undeveloped strip in the fixer, so the fixer can clear the undeveloped portions.

TR

fschifano · Jan 22, 2009

Clip test for fixer is easy. Take an undeveloped piece of film and place one drop of fixer onto the emulsion. Let it sit for 30 seconds, then place the film into the fixing bath. When you can no longer see where you placed the initial drop, the film is clear. That's your clearing time.

cameralover · Jan 22, 2009

Oh!! thanks fschifano, that's a very good method.

cameralover · Jan 22, 2009

Finally, I already got Darkroom Cookbook 3rd edition.....really impress me. I will do my experiment soon

wogster · Jan 22, 2009

cameralover said:
Oh!! thanks fschifano, that's a very good method.

Don't forget that fixing time should be twice the clearing time, if this is too short, then cut your fixer 1+1 with water and do the clip test again, then try 1+2 if that is still to short. For film I like a clearing time of around 2½ minutes, so I have a fixing time of 5 minutes. Over fixing is as bad as under fixing,

Is it possible to use x-ray film fixer with Neopan 400

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