Is it possible to develop 50x60 paper without adequate trays?

Kaboom · Sep 25, 2009

Is there a way to develop paper that is significantly bigger than the trays you have?
I just got a dated pack of ilford Ilfobrom in that size for 10 and i was toying with the idea of making a huge poster of one of my favorite negs. If it isn't possible i'll just cut it up and use smaller sizes, which would be a shame!.
cheers!

Anscojohn · Sep 25, 2009

Depends what kind of space you have. You can make containers using a rough wooden frame lined with sheet plastic. I worked one summer for a guy who did life-size prints of rock performers. The trays were shaped rather like today's pans for wetting wall-paper--although much bigger. The trick is to roll the paper up loosely; then roll and unroll it in the chemicals.
Come to think of it, I think the "trays" were actually for developing Cirkut camera negs and prints--but the rock performer blowups were much, much bigger.

Jon Shiu · Sep 25, 2009

I have seen large print developing tubes where you pour the chemicals in. Perhaps you could make a homemade one.

Jon

2F/2F · Sep 25, 2009

You can roll it through the developer (like a poster) instead of using an appropriately-sized tray. Roll it through one way and then flip it and do it the other way until it is done. Just be very careful not to kink or scratch the paper. Move slowly. There is no rush.

Mike1234 · Sep 25, 2009

I would build wooden frames from 2x2 lumber and line them with thick sheet plastic then fill them to 1/2" from the top... yes that's a lot of chemistry... and a lot of floor space. I would use diluted developer because it will take awhile to fully submerse the print and attain even agitation/development. Initial submersion into the developer... lay the exposed paper flat on one edge of the makeshift tray then gently pull it through to the far side of the tray while keeping the leading edge just a smidge off the bottom of the tray but the top under the surface of the chemistry. Agitation is via gently sloshing your gloved hands all around the surface of the print. Of course. the method changes after the paper is wet. You'll need to "guess" at where the far edge of the stop bath tray is and gently lay it down then used motions from the inside of the print out to force the chemistry from under the print to the outer edges wher you then pull the chemistry inward toward the center of the print.

You REALLY need a second person to make this work.

There really is no easy way to hand process monster sized prints like that and there is a very good chance you will not fully succeed.

Marc Leest · Sep 25, 2009

I've heard that you could develop/fix with a sponge. Never tried it myself however.

Marc

richard ide · Sep 25, 2009

I have made large prints in an apartment by wetting the wall of the shower/bathtub to hold the paper in place and develop, stop, fix with sponges and then washing the print in the tub. Worked very well.

Kaboom · Sep 25, 2009

i think it might have been a rash decision...
Until i bring the pack home (its waiting for me back at the shop, i rode the fixie there today and could only carry back small items) i'm not entirely certain i even have the SPACE to fit three trays that size...
this obviously poses some severe logistics problems...
I think since i got it for so little i'll go with Richard's method. I'll lightproof the toilet and develop there with sponges. It'd better not stain much or some people will be getting quite upset...
If that doesn't work i'll move onto carpentry. The mere thought of a self-made poster of that particular picture hanging on my room's wall warrants the effort!

Photo Engineer · Sep 25, 2009

Sponges will not give you the uniformity you need.

Best of luck.

PE

elbuveli2ETHPY · Sep 26, 2009

Marc Leest,dit is al een hele oude techniek,je kunt er bepaalde veeg-effecten mee bereiken,zo-dat het lijkt alsof je een bewasemt raam schoon veegt om even naar buiten te gluren,bijvoorbeeld.

Jeff Searust · Sep 26, 2009

do it outside at night

Jesper · Sep 26, 2009

You can use drain pipes cut in half instead of trays (you can buy a length of drain pipe with a lid in each end, cut it in half and you have two trays).
If you are not going to print bigger than 50x60 you can develop by yourself but get a friend to help you move the paper back and forth through the liquids if needed.

It also works with sponges, but the risk of uneven development is great so I wouldn't recommend it (I do it myself so that is just how much my advice is worth). If you do it with sponges be sure to be generous with developer and use clean sponges.

Rick A · Sep 26, 2009

Kaboom said:
Is there a way to develop paper that is significantly bigger than the trays you have?
I just got a dated pack of ilford Ilfobrom in that size for 10 and i was toying with the idea of making a huge poster of one of my favorite negs. If it isn't possible i'll just cut it up and use smaller sizes, which would be a shame!.
cheers!

The answer is an emphatic yes - so long as you have the means to either construct a large tube, or scab together a wooden tray lined with plastic sheetiing(or fiberglass it for permanence). I think the latter more easily accomplished. You only need one pan if you put a drain in it.If you have it on legs, make one leg slightly shorter to allow it to rock for aggitation. You could use a garden hose for rinsing . This really quite simple.
Rick

ricksplace · Sep 26, 2009

I develop 24X30 in wallpaper trays by see-saw method. I suppose you could use the same way if you could make or buy trays long enough.

jfish · Sep 26, 2009

If you are in the US, to go HomeDepot and get some of the orange wallpaper trays, the larger the better. Get an exposure and dev. time that you Dmax out your dev. I.E. you develope to about 3 or 4 minutes so there is no other development happening should you go over the time. Roll the paper in a tube shape, slip into the dev. then roll in the opposite direction. When you get to the end, take out of the dev., flip and repeat for the the 3 or 4 minutes. Do the same for all the chemicals. Basically you are doing mural print type development. Very easy actually and space taken is minimal...even less than 16x20 trays.

brianmquinn · Sep 26, 2009

This is just an idea that I have not tried.
How about a large thick pastic trash bag. Insert the paper and tape the edges except for one corner. Pour in a liter or so of developer and lay it on the floor while holding the corner closed. Have someone else help move the liquid back and forth. When finished pour off devloper into a bucket and add stop. continue on with fix. Perhaps you could just hose off the final print as a wash step or do several changes of water as per Ilford method. PS if this is fiber paper better use something like TF4 fixer to shorten the wash step.

Jon Shiu · Sep 26, 2009

Is it 50x60 inches, or 50x60cm or some other type of units?

Jon

edit: 50x60cm is about 20x24 inches. Come to think of it 50x60 inches is not a realistic paper size. I recommend just getting a print developing drum or single tray processing in a 20x24 inch tray.

Ian Grant · Sep 26, 2009

A few suggestions, I've made troughs with bits of wood and thick plastic & see sawed images, 40" wide by 6 ft.

I've also pinned the paper on a board and sprayed dev, stop, fix etc.

But these days I use a Sponge or 3

Photo Engineer said:
Sponges will not give you the uniformity you need.
Best of luck.
PE

There are trade secrets to all these techniques, with Sponges you must use the developer more dilute than normal, or as Ron says uniformity is a huge problem. If it's usually 1+9 for that paper/dev then 1+14 or even 1+19, is needed, the dev time is greatly extended maybe 4-6 minutes, adding extra Sodium Sulphite helps with aerial oxidation, and some wetting agent works wonders as well.

That's how I currently make the few large FB prints I sometimes require for exhibitions. It's a piece of cake with RC prints

Ian

Dave Pritchard · Sep 26, 2009

I've been thinking about this problem. It's a good one. Handling the wet paper is, I think, one of the biggest problems. I'd start with making a single tray, lined with plastic sheeting. The paper goes in and stays there throughout the process. That means you have to get chemistry in and out of the single tray. Some means of tilting the tray with levers or rollers would work to both agitate and tip out the chemistry. I think it may even work to capture the paper in the tray using screen mesh. That way, the entire tray could be stood on end to tip out chemistry or wash water.

I'd also suggest calculating the amount of developer you will need on the paper, just so you don't under-develop.

If you are really creative, the tray could be curved. The entire thing would rock. Think about using very thin plywood to make it. You could pour a relatively small amount of chemistry in, and rock the curved tray to move the chemistry from one end to another.

Ian Grant · Sep 26, 2009

Don't think too hard Dave, it's far easier to just do it & build 3 trays on a flat concrete (or similar) floor

Prints wash in the bath

Ian

pedrosal · Sep 26, 2009

I bought an old and very used Jobo developing tube for my 50 x 60 paper. Wonderful results and very, very easy to use with a relatively small amount of developer (compared to tray developing). For smaller prints I got an Ilford developing tube.

Anscojohn · Sep 26, 2009

Marc Leest said:
I've heard that you could develop/fix with a sponge. Never tried it myself however.

Marc

*********
I've done that; in the basement; newspapers, sheet plastic, and a handy floor drain.

dancqu · Sep 27, 2009

Kaboom said:
i'm not entirely certain i even have the SPACE
to fit three trays that size...

Process single tray. That's how I do it. Very dilute
developer and fixer. Don't bother with a stop.
Processing time are prolonged; good for
even results.

Develop, fix, wash, one tray. Dan

Dave Pritchard · Sep 27, 2009

Wrong Unit Assumption

I was thinking 50 x 60 inches, not cm. I didn't notice the previous post where this was pointed out. Not such a big problem as I was thinking.

Kaboom · Sep 28, 2009

turns out the paper isn't as huge as i remembered...
its 61x50.8 CENTIMETERS, but since a 35mm frame is 36x24mm, i can only enlarge to about 60x40. If the trays i have are just about 40cm long i think i'll cut the paper before exposure and try teh seesaw method first.
If the trays are too small or this approach fails, i'll move on to sponges and dilute developer in a bathtub. If that also fails, it'll be time for the DIY bigass wood and plastic tray/s.

Thank you very much everyone for your input, I'll be sure to post results.

keep the great contributions coming!

Is it possible to develop 50x60 paper without adequate trays?

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