Is it now a "true" Kodak ?

Andy38 · Sep 11, 2019

Here is a camera that looks like a Kodak 1A Folding Pocket; and inside on the back, it's named Model C.

But...
_ Model C has a wooden front panel, here it's metallic ;
_ on this camera, lens and shutter are not usual : a 125 mm "Dagor" and a "Koilos" shutter;
_ a foot for horizontal position ;
_ and overall not a fixfocus, but a focus by a lever under the lens, with a scale in feet. I tried with a ground glass and it's perfect !

So, it may be not a true 1A Folding Pocket Kodak but the modifications are so well done that I love like that...

Kino · Sep 11, 2019

Very Nice!

Looks like someone customized their camera with some precision and skill; not just a clumsy hack-job.

You have a unique camera! Enjoy!

Dan Fromm · Sep 11, 2019

Real.

EKCo sold cameras in European countries with high tariffs on optical goods. In those countries they used locally-produced lenses and, sometimes, shutters. Also, everywhere that EKCo sold FPKs they offered the same basic models with lenses ranging from meniscii to top-of-the-line. Same went for shutters. Koilos shutter with Dagor make the OP's treasure a high end camera.

The OP's gem is a fairly early FPK. Go here http://mgroleau.com/catalogues_kodak/ and look through the earlier catalogs.

Ian Grant · Sep 11, 2019

Kodak also made cameras in the UK and Canada and later Germany, they also bought cameras from some German manufacturers in the early days of roll film before WW1

Why do you think it's a Kodak camera ?.

Ian

Andy38 · Sep 11, 2019

Ian Grant said:
Kodak also made cameras in the UK and Canada and later Germany, they also bought cameras from some German manufacturers in the early days of roll film before WW1

Why do you think it's a Kodak camera ?.

Ian

It's engraved on the back inside : N°1A Folding Pocket Kodak Model C.
And : Manufactured by Eastman Kodak CO Rochester NY ; there is no patent date.
Unless the back has been changed, it's a Kodak.

For Dan, and thanks for the infos, replace lens/shutter is an easier work than change fixfocus to variable focus : modify focus system needs a new front panel and fixation is here different from the one of model C.

Ian Grant · Sep 11, 2019

Well there's a near identical looking Ia Model D with red bellows for sale on Ebay, here in the UK, and two similar just listed as Ia's, all have a different lens to yours. So it's all genuine as it left the factory and not modified. Kodak sold cameras themselves and sometimes lens manufacturers sold Kodak cameras fitted with their lenses, so Ross were selling Kodak roll film cameras with Ross-Tessar lens before WW1. There were quite close links between Kodak and Ross, Kodak distributing Ross lenses in some parts of the world.

Houghton made a roll film Ensign with a Koilos shutter and Dagor and as Dan said shutters and lenses were often sourced locally. CP Goerz had an Optical works at 1-6 Holborn Circus, London, as well as their main factory in Berlin and New York.

It's a nice looking camera and quite different to other models and series of the 1a. I have two later 1a Autographic, it seems there were at least 3 different pattern Ia's with quite differing strut systems.

Ian

Andy38 · Sep 12, 2019

Because of modifications, nothing outside the body shows it's a Kodak ; back has to be opened to see the word.
I'd like to know what the Eastman Kodak Co thought about that...

There are German patents on front : "Pat. CP Goertz, Berlin" on lens and "Patent Ang DRGM" on shutter.
"Ang" for Angemeldet , notified, means it has not yet been granted ; why that, if it can be used ? (I am not a law specialist)

AgX · Sep 12, 2019

Ian Grant said:
Kodak also made cameras in the UK and Canada and later Germany, ...

And the models made by the US, UK and Germany plants even differed.

Dan Fromm · Sep 12, 2019

Andy38 said:
Because of modifications, nothing outside the body shows it's a Kodak ; back has to be opened to see the word.
I'd like to know what the Eastman Kodak Co thought about that...

There are German patents on front : "Pat. CP Goertz, Berlin" on lens and "Patent Ang DRGM" on shutter.
"Ang" for Angemeldet , notified, means it has not yet been granted ; why that, if it can be used ? (I am not a law specialist)

Paranoia run amok. EKCo made bodies in Rochester, shipped them all over the world to be mated with shutters and lenses obtained locally.

Use it and enjoy it, harvest the lens and shutter for use on another camera, or sell it on.

AgX · Sep 12, 2019

Andy38 said:
There are German patents on front : "Pat. CP Goertz, Berlin" on lens and "Patent Ang DRGM" on shutter.
"Ang" for Angemeldet , notified, means it has not yet been granted ; why that, if it can be used ? (I am not a law specialist)

You have seen such also over the last decades as "Patent Pending".

A device, of which one thinks it does not break into opther intellectual property, can be marketed anytime.
To make it patendable though one should not do so before the patent authority has confirmed the reception of your application.
From that reception day on, one has so to say ones foot in the door. No competitor can anymore get a patent on same idea. He only can fight against the application of the patent. If he is successful with that, none of the two competitors can gain a patent on that idea.

The "patent pending" is meant to deter competitors. It also shows the prospective user that the product likely is a novelty, is unique.

Of course that can be done for the show... knowing that there is no chance of granting. But then this show is costly, for the patent authorities fees.

Andy38 · Sep 13, 2019

Thank you for the explanation, AGX, I understand how I'm ignorant about that.

Dan, if I use it, I'll modify to 120 but find another similar back to drill a hole for a correct red window, and leave the original intact.; lens is worth it.
I don't want to sell it...

Ian Grant · Sep 13, 2019

Andy38 said:
Because of modifications, nothing outside the body shows it's a Kodak ; back has to be opened to see the word.
I'd like to know what the Eastman Kodak Co thought about that...

There are German patents on front : "Pat. CP Goertz, Berlin" on lens and "Patent Ang DRGM" on shutter.
"Ang" for Angemeldet , notified, means it has not yet been granted ; why that, if it can be used ? (I am not a law specialist)

What modifications ? There's at least 3 almost identical 1a's on Ebay here in the UK at the moment, there's at least 3 different Series of the 1a.

Ian

Dan Fromm · Sep 13, 2019

Ian, there's no reasoning ...

Andy38 · Sep 13, 2019

In the 1910 Kodak catalog (link given above), it's written on page 10 : Like N°1, it (the N° 1A FPK) requires no focusing.
When the usual fixfocus becomes a variable focus, isn't it reasonnable to tell it's a modification ?

Ian Grant · Sep 13, 2019

Your looking at US Eastman Kodak catalogues, the problem is your camera wasn't sold with that Dagor lens or Koilos shutter in the US. Distribution in the UK and Europe was usually by Kodak Ltd in the UK.

As Dan pointed out earlier often shutters and lenses were added in the country of the final sale. Here in the UK Kodak fitted British made lenses, and as I also pointed out Goerz themselves had an Optical works in London. I've not double checked but one seller says that style of 1a was available 1905-1915.

Because different lenses were added that's not a modification rather a variant, and perhaps one distributor decided to add the focussing. There are various other Kodak cameras of that era with Koilos shutter and Goerz Dagor lenses of the same age. The Koilos shutter was made by Gauthier the main competitor to Deckel (Compound and Compur), Gauthier are better known for Ibsor, Ibso, Prontor. Pronto and Vario shutters, However the Koilos shutter was Patented by Wilhelm Kenngott living in Paris.

Too much information is lost to determine who added the focussing. It might have been Gauthier but who knows

I have an Alliance Roll-Film Camera Co Ltd 110 camera (old 5x4 inch neg size roll film) made between 1898 and 1904 and there's nothing on the Internet remotely similar. I'm sure if I searched Library archives of magazines from that era I'd find adverts perhaps more listing it, but it would be a slow process. I think it's the same with your camera.

Ian

Is it now a "true" Kodak ?

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