Is Hot Water Completly Necessary?

mtbbrian · Jun 18, 2007

How important is having hot water in a b&w darkroom?
In the space I have for my darkroom to be, I already have cold water, but installing running hot water would be quite a chore.
I can bring it in, via containers for mixing, but is running hot water absolutely necessary?
Brian

argus · Jun 18, 2007

I don't even have running water in my darkroom. Luckily the bathroom is nextdoors.

G

mtbbrian · Jun 18, 2007

argus said:
I don't even have running water in my darkroom. Luckily the bathroom is nextdoors.

G

WOW?
I guess that answers my question!?

:rolleyes:
How does that work for you?

Brian

srs5694 · Jun 18, 2007

The only reasons I can think of to use hot water are:

To mix chemicals -- but of course you could just bring in a bucketful or mix outside of the darkroom, so this isn't critical.
To create water baths for controlling temperature, particularly for color processes that require ~100F temperatures -- again, though, you could bring in the water from outside the darkroom.
To raise the temperature of cold water by mixing the two, particularly in the winter -- this could be important if you've got very cold water and run into reticulation problems as a result.

Overall, I'd say you could probably get away without hot running water, particularly if you've got a nearby hot water supply and a bucket or two. If you try it this way and run into problems, I've heard of devices that heat water on demand; they fit inline with the plumbing and heat water as it flows. It's conceivable that it would be easier to split your existing cold water supply and install such a device than to run a separate hot water line. Try asking about such devices at local home improvement or plumbing supply stores.

DBP · Jun 18, 2007

No.

You can always bring in hot water for water baths for color, or heat the water in the darkroom. As for mixing chemicals, if you use liquid concentrates there is no need at all.

Rolleiflexible · Jun 18, 2007

My darkroom is my closet.
Suits on one side,
enlarger on the other.
Need I say more?

donbga · Jun 18, 2007

mtbbrian said:
How important is having hot water in a b&w darkroom?
In the space I have for my darkroom to be, I already have cold water, but installing running hot water would be quite a chore.
I can bring it in, via containers for mixing, but is running hot water absolutely necessary?
Brian

If at all possible put hot water in your darkroom so that water temp. can be controlled with a mixing valve. If you do this you will be much happier than carrying it in from another source.

Make your darkroom as comfortable and convenient as possible. In the end the extra effort pays off in extra productivity.

Mike Wilde · Jun 18, 2007

two hot water sources are options

There are small electric powered storage tank hot water heaters that could be an option. Most darkroom hot water needs are not too severe. If the cold water is causing too long a time in washing ( fixer comes out at a slower rate in really cold water, as I recall) then the hot water demands are quite modest, and such a tank sitting under the sink might be just the ticket.

If the source of hot water is only for mixing chemistry, and you start with distilled water , as I do for developers, then the best option is a microwave oven. It can heat a pan of distilled water to the correct temperature range, and if it gets a bit too hot, be cooled by adding cold distilled, then cut to the required volume.

A microwave can even warm cold mixed solutions. This lets you process films in times shorter than 15 minutes, as is the case for me in the winter with stock d-76 falliung to a temperature of 15 degrees c mid february if I have not been down in the darkroom for a few days..

Roger Hicks · Jun 18, 2007

mtbbrian said:
How important is having hot water in a b&w darkroom?
In the space I have for my darkroom to be, I already have cold water, but installing running hot water would be quite a chore.
I can bring it in, via containers for mixing, but is running hot water absolutely necessary?
Brian

Dear Brian,

It's mildly convenient, nothing more. The majority of the darkrooms I've had over the last 40 years had no running water at all, let alone hot water. Just don't worry about it.

Cheers,

Roger (you'll find pictures of some of my darkrooms on www.rogerandfrances.com)

Paul Howell · Jun 18, 2007

Although I have spent most of my life in warm weather I have had darkrooms in places with cool and cold winters and no hot water. In really cold weather I used a waterproof heating pad under my developer tray. I glued plastic legs to a plastic tray to just sit above the pad. I got the pad from a medical supply house. For mixing dry chem, a hot plate. For washing prints and negatives using cold water did not seem to make a differnace, I check for hypo and washing at 45 or 50 degrees did not take longer than prints washed at 68 or 70 degrees.

argus · Jun 18, 2007

mtbbrian said:
WOW?
I guess that answers my question!?
:rolleyes:
How does that work for you?

Brian

I do my E6 in a large tray in the bathtub. Also the print washer resides there when it is needed.
A thermostatic valve comes in really handy!

G

Steve Smith · Jun 18, 2007

I don't have hot water as my darkroom is in the roof space and the hot water header tank is lower than the sink. I was going to raise it but I bought an electric kettle instead!

Steve.

max_ebb · Jun 18, 2007

Personally, I would just buy a small 'on demand' water heater (also called tankless) like they use for boats and RV's.

Steve Smith said:
I don't have hot water as my darkroom is in the roof space and the hot water header tank is lower than the sink. I was going to raise it but I bought an electric kettle instead!

You don't have water pressure? Do you have some sort of gravity system? It's not uncommon for a water heater to be in the basement. If you have water pressure, it's not a problem getting the hot water to the top floor (same as the cold water).

UKJohn · Jun 18, 2007

Hi,

I have cold water but no hot, like Steve (above) a kettle works adequately well.

John

Steve Smith · Jun 18, 2007

max_ebb said:
You don't have water pressure? Do you have some sort of gravity system? It's not uncommon for a water heater to be in the basement. If you have water pressure, it's not a problem getting the hot water to the top floor (same as the cold water).

In a traditional central heating system, two header tanks are used; a large one for the hot water and a smaller one for heating. The hot water header feeds a cylinder lower down which is heated by a coil from the primary circuit. As the header tank provides the head of water (hence it's name, you can't get hot water higher than this point).

This is known as a gravity feed system.

If I had a modern combination boiler, I wouldn't have this problem as they run hot water at mains pressure.

Steve.

MattKing · Jun 19, 2007

Sanders McNew said:
My darkroom is my closet.
Suits on one side,
enlarger on the other.
Need I say more?

There truly is a delicious irony in the fact that Sanders processes all those wonderful photos of people without clothes, in a Darkroom used to store clothes!!!

Careful of the chemical stains, Sanders

Matt

P.S. as many have said above, you need access to hot or warm water, not necessarily warm or hot water plumbed directly into the darkroom. It is, however, wonderfully convenient to have the plumbing as well.

Curt · Jun 19, 2007

How about a small point of use hot water heater? There are some very small ones at Lowes and Home Depot. Or one of the instant hot taps. These are going to be a bit expensive though.

You could also tap into the hot water line of the sink in the bathroom next door and run a PEX flexible line to your darkroom. Put a simple valve on the end and you have a hot water line. You add the connector at the sink shutoff valve and get a connect/disconnect for your PEX line, which can run at very high temperatures. The hardware people in the plumbing department can show you the parts. It wouldn't be very expensive either.

Curt

tim_walls · Jun 19, 2007

I'll add my completely uneducated opinion - I don't have a darkroom at the moment (I use the bathroom for printing & do film developing in the kitchen) - but if I were kitting out a darkroom from scratch I'd definitely try and put hot water in. Critically, I'd also make sure I had a good quality mixer tap/valve there as well.

Running warm water makes doing colour development a lot less tedious - if you have a mixer that will let you nail the water temperature reasonably accurately the rinses (of which there are several in E6, I've never done C41 so don't know about that) are a lot less hassle.

Steve Smith · Jun 19, 2007

tim_walls said:
Running warm water makes doing colour development a lot less tedious.

It also makes the washing up easier too!

I currently only have cold in my darkroom. My next priority is to fit the waste pipe to the sink. I'm using a bucket at the moment.

Once this is done, I will probably raise my header tank and connect up the hot tap.

Steve.

jeroldharter · Jun 20, 2007

I suppose you could get by with no hot water but why do that by design?

Where I live, the natural water temperature is about 58 degrees so I like to temper that somewhat for film and paper washing. You could choose to use all liquid chemicals but if you have no hot water then you must use liquids and therefore you lose some of the fun that darkroom work is for. If you have options, then get a hot water supply. One option would be an LP or natural gas demand system althought the units are a bit pricey.

Is Hot Water Completly Necessary?

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