Is arista really a learning film?

OAPOli · Apr 12, 2023

redbandit said:
I have used it MOST with my canon FTB. nice little spot meter. but here is the thing.

I can put a sheet of paper up, on a fence post in full light. take my meter reading on the left most edge of the paper, rotate the tripod so the spot meter circle is on the OTHER edge.

SECOND shot will have horrid over exposure/blown highlights. Even though the meter needle never changed between edges.

Ive shot perhaps 8 rolls of arista 400 iso 120 film... of the 4 that survived the developing process of learning roll film. THey were even worse.

I have only run 1 roll of shangai gp3 220.. i only had 5 images, the start and end, that came out clear/partial image.
I have more actual negatives on that roll of shanghai gp3, then those 4 rolls of arista iso 400 120 COMBINED

Maybe the shutter is off or the diaphragm is sticky. What battery are you using? FTb requires obsolete 1.35V batteries.

What 120 camera as you using? Clear or partial images are not normal and are likely due to camera malfunction or user error.

Craig · Apr 12, 2023

pentaxuser said:
The dropping it down a drain or drinking tea?

It's a reference to old tv commercials for Red Rose tea that always ended with "Pity"

pentaxuser · Apr 12, 2023

Thanks I was completely unfamiliar with such an advert I take it that it is still only available in Canada

On the other hand the Cockney geezers in the ad are available in Canada should you ever need them again

pentaxuser

Craig · Apr 12, 2023

pentaxuser said:
Thanks I was completely unfamiliar with such an advert I take it that it is still only available in Canada

As far as I know, yes the brand is still only in Canada.

GregY · Apr 12, 2023

A "learning film"..... is a marketing statement. Camera stores always sold lots of the cheapest cameras and films to students....but that had no bearing on the quality of work that could be done with them...
It's the photographer that's learning. Coming to conclusions about a film with cameras that are 50 yrs old, and haven't been CLA'd.... is IMO going down the wrong path. I think you have to examine the entire process....from the methodology of taking the photo right through to the print, before concluding that a different film will give better results. I'm not a huge fan of Foma films because of their QC....but i have some great photos made with it.

DREW WILEY · Apr 12, 2023

It can be considered either a student film or just a lower price point one. I'm not particularly impressed with those Arista/Foma films; but one should try them and make up their own mind.

redbandit · Apr 12, 2023

Paul Howell said:
If you are shooting with a spot meter and your target is a white sheet of paper you are shoot the paper which should be bright white Zone 8 or 9 at middle gray zone V. No matter what part of the paper you are metering the spot meter is reading middle gray. What I recommend is that you learn how to test your film and developer combination. Get a copy of The Zone System for 35mm Photographers, it might be very helpful. I use Foma which is Artista and get consistent negatives, I shoot with many different 35mm cameras and 3 MF cameras, but I had to test each camera as meters and shutters might be off. The other issue could be the shutter of you Canon is really off.

it still does it even after new batteries, having the entire meter and shutter checked over and calibrated by a professional..

cmacd123 · Apr 12, 2023

Rick A said:
I still have a couple of rolls of Arista Premium (35mm) in the fridge. It's marked "made in Japan" can you guess what it really is? Hint, development times and reciprocity characteristics are identical to a certain "much missed" 100 speed film that was re released with a new emulsion.

I thonk you must be remembering "Legacy Pro". the Arista Premium was sourced from Kodak. I must have gone through 100 rolls of Legacy Pro.

cmacd123 · Apr 12, 2023

Film for students is a a big market. Professors want a "reasonable" film that can be obtained inexpesively. the two main contenders are Kentmere, and Arista. the name Arista.edu means that it is aimed at the educational market (and we can now get "Ultra" as the original Arista.EDU was from Forte.)

So yes, It is what many schools will stock in the Bookstore, and tell Students to Buy.

DREW WILEY · Apr 12, 2023

How many places still even teach film photography other than workshops? Heck, even the biggest private digital photography career school in this area went broke during the pandemic. And this is the world epicenter of tech careers. Amazon sent 75% of Bookstores into extinction, even around campuses. And what bookstore ever sold film? You must be joking.

GregY · Apr 12, 2023

DREW WILEY said:
How many places still even teach film photography other than workshops? Heck, even the biggest private digital photography career school in this area went broke during the pandemic. And this is the world epicenter of tech careers. Amazon sent 75% of Bookstores into extinction, even around campuses. And what bookstore ever sold film? You must be joking.

It seems like the OP is asking in a round about way if 'student' film is the cause of his technical problems.....

Craig · Apr 12, 2023

DREW WILEY said:
And what bookstore ever sold film? You must be joking.

He means a university bookstore. My campus bookstore had a film lab in it, I could buy film and get C41 done in a hour.

They carried all the supplies needed for any course on campus, so that included film and fine art supplies for drawing and painting courses, as well as all the required textbooks.

Paul Howell · Apr 12, 2023

Before the analog crash many high schools taught photography and most had darkrooms. The local shop I bought from sold a lot of "student" film and paper along with Clayton chemistry to high schools. Students from the local community colleges shopped there as they sold Forte at a discount. Freestyle sold to schools as well, and might to the remaining schools that offer traditional photography. I think the UofA sold film and paper in it's bookstore.

At this point I buy Foma, not sure what the difference is between Aritista and Artista Edu.

DREW WILEY · Apr 12, 2023

Of course, my high school had photo classes and a darkroom too. But that was 60 yrs ago. The colleges and in this area, and even UCB, had em until about a decade ago. Now it's mainly up to community centers, camera stores, and workshop clubs to fill in the void. But back in the day, entire local photo supply businesses were devoted to supplying the University needs (UCB). That kind of volume sure wouldn't fit in any campus bookstore. Of course, there were research purposes for film and paper too. Teaching photography was probably the minor usage.

randyB · Apr 12, 2023

redbandit said:
I have used it MOST with my canon FTB. nice little spot meter. but here is the thing.

I can put a sheet of paper up, on a fence post in full light. take my meter reading on the left most edge of the paper, rotate the tripod so the spot meter circle is on the OTHER edge.

SECOND shot will have horrid over exposure/blown highlights. Even though the meter needle never changed between edges.

Ive shot perhaps 8 rolls of arista 400 iso 120 film... of the 4 that survived the developing process of learning roll film. THey were even worse.

I have only run 1 roll of shangai gp3 220.. i only had 5 images, the start and end, that came out clear/partial image.
I have more actual negatives on that roll of shanghai gp3, then those 4 rolls of arista iso 400 120 COMBINED

You are aware that the metering cell is within the rectangular box around the micro prism circle, not just the circle. https://www.cameramanuals.org/canon_pdf/canon_ftb.pdf.
page 18. The metering cell is a basic CDS cell, no matrix, no computer. The reading that it gives you is 18% gray. One thing to keep in mind is that any light shining into the eyepiece may influence the reading. The FTB is a great camera but may need service since it is over 40+ years old.

jp498 · Apr 12, 2023

"Learning" means ruining film loading it on a reel, making darkroom chemistry mistakes like fixing before developing, finger prints on the film. Bad compositions, getting used to using a manual camera, back opening the camera loaded before rewinding, etc.. A high school for example will have all total noobs dealing with film and cameras.

Once past that (a truly minimal number of rolls), I also suggest learning the finer points of a great film you want to make quality photos with.

Sort of like if one is into firearms, there's "range ammo" like "learning film", then there are ammo products for precisely shooting holes in paper or clay pigeons at different distances, defense, hunting different animals, etc..

pentaxuser · Apr 12, 2023

GregY said:
It seems like the OP is asking in a round about way if 'student' film is the cause of his technical problems.....

Yes this is the very point that I was wondering about. It does seem that this is the case as you say but he hasn't actually said so or not in so many words

Perhaps he will state for all of our benefit to what he ascribes his problems. His meter also seems to play a part in his problems as well despite being serviced and calibrated

pentaxuser

alanrockwood · Apr 12, 2023

There was a "student quality film" from one of the Eastern European countries that was sold in the US back in the early 1970s. I have been trying to remember the brand name, but the brand name escapes me. Does anyone remember some of the brand names if films from Eastern Europe that were sold to the student market in the early 1970s?

DREW WILEY · Apr 12, 2023

Sometimes cheap quality films just discourage beginners. I generally advise starting out with something like FP4, which is relatively forgiving, yet good enough that some people stick with it for decades. And starting with one kind of film, then potentially needing to prematurely switch to another doubles the learning curve. At one time, Arista 100 was FP4; not any more.

That being said, some people are content with current Arista EDU films. Just be aware that the labeled box speeds tend to be overtly over-optimistic.

Paul Howell · Apr 12, 2023

alanrockwood said:
There was a "student quality film" from one of the Eastern European countries that was sold in the US back in the early 1970s. I have been trying to remember the brand name, but the brand name escapes me. Does anyone remember some of the brand names if films from Eastern Europe that were sold to the student market in the early 1970s?

Forte and EFKA (?), Forte was made in Hungary, EFKA (?) was made in Yugoslavia then in Croatia after the civil wars.

Bill Burk · Apr 12, 2023

Back when I was “learning” 4x5 I shot a box of Arista 100. I complain that it was covered with fingerprints and the emulsion flaked off. So I swore it off and stuck to Kodak from then on.

Of course it wasn’t manufactured with fingerprints and the flakes were obviously bellows crud from a flea market 4x5 bellows I was too excited to use … to clean.

But I never regretted switching to Kodak

DREW WILEY · Apr 12, 2023

Efke is the correct name.

Sirius Glass · Apr 12, 2023

DREW WILEY said:
Sometimes cheap quality films just discourage beginners. I generally advise starting out with something like FP4, which is relatively forgiving, yet good enough that some people stick with it for decades. And starting with one kind of film, then potentially needing to prematurely switch to another doubles the learning curve. At one time, Arista 100 was FP4; not any more.

That being said, some people are content with current Arista EDU films. Just be aware that the labeled box speeds tend to be overtly over-optimistic.

I am very hesitant to recommend a beginning film to a learning photographer for fear that the film's shortcomings and defects discourage the photographer.

Agulliver · Apr 13, 2023

When someone asks me the "best" film to start with, it usually results in a loong conversation that they were not intending!

But even if we just stick to B&W film, it rather depends on what one wants to learn and how one approaches photography. From the problems OP describes, I don't think the Foma film is a significant problem here. What I would advise more generally is that any of the B&W films from Kodak or Ilford are more forgiving of minor errors in exposure and processing. I would usually say "You pretty much cannot go wrong with HP5 and ID-11, Mess up and you'll still get some sort of images".

That said, if OP has had severe issues with getting any kind of usable image on Fomapan and even Shanghai, there's lot more going on than a film being a bit tricky for "nailing it".

Wallendo · Apr 13, 2023

I think Arista.edu (Foma) is an appropriate student film. The film is predictable and consistent. Some people may not like it's characteristics, but it is consistent.

The Arista.edu rebrand is no longer significantly cheaper than Foma. If starting out today, I might be inclined to use Kentmere.

I actually enjoy using Foma 100 at times, basically because I feel it gives a "vintage" look, but understand why others would no like it.

Is arista really a learning film?

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