Is anyone else excited about the Ars Imago Lab-Box?

filmamigo · Jun 26, 2017

I recently ran across a kickstarter campaign that will (hopefully) deliver a gadget that I have hoped for for decades.

The Lab-Box by Ars Imago is a daylight-loading processing tank.

http://www.ars-imago.com/lab-box/

The kickstarter looks like it was a roaring success; but is now closed, so I will have to order it once shipping through regular channels.

For me the worst part of processing film is the time and hassle of loading reels for a daylight tank. I know it's supposed to get faster and easier, but I have processed B&W since highschool and it's never gotten "quick." I dread the thought of loading reels inside my dark tent/bag. It's slow, it's hot, and at least once in a while I get the darn reel loaded poorly enough that I put a crease in the film somewhere. It actually dissuades me from shooting more film, because I know the exposed rolls will pile up, waiting to be processed.

I have addressed the chemistry/processing side of B&W, by adopting Diafine as my primary developer. I found film combinations that I like in Diafine, and now the processing part is quick, carefree and reliable/repeatable.

So I really look forward to the Lab-Box making the film loading part just as easy. I would love to be able to soup up one or two rolls in a jiffy, instead of waiting until I can get a solid, un-interrupted couple of hours to load reels and then process.

trendland · Jun 26, 2017

filmamigo said:
I recently ran across a kickstarter campaign that will (hopefully) deliver a gadget that I have hoped for for decades.

The Lab-Box by Ars Imago is a daylight-loading processing tank.

http://www.ars-imago.com/lab-box/

The kickstarter looks like it was a roaring success; but is now closed, so I will have to order it once shipping through regular channels.

For me the worst part of processing film is the time and hassle of loading reels for a daylight tank. I know it's supposed to get faster and easier, but I have processed B&W since highschool and it's never gotten "quick." I dread the thought of loading reels inside my dark tent/bag. It's slow, it's hot, and at least once in a while I get the darn reel loaded poorly enough that I put a crease in the film somewhere. It actually dissuades me from shooting more film, because I know the exposed rolls will pile up, waiting to be processed.

I have addressed the chemistry/processing side of B&W, by adopting Diafine as my primary developer. I found film combinations that I like in Diafine, and now the processing part is quick, carefree and reliable/repeatable.

So I really look forward to the Lab-Box making the film loading part just as easy. I would love to be able to soup up one or two rolls in a jiffy, instead of waiting until I can get a solid, un-interrupted couple of hours to load reels and then process.

Yes indeed it is looking fine. But tell me where is the need to load at daylight?
So we have to develope film in a bus - in a train - on the job in bureau?
Perhaps at the beach during holydays?

with regards

zanxion72 · Jun 26, 2017

Excited? Why? It does not beat my paterson tank, bought for 10 USD that develops, film of almost any size from 16mm and up.
Also, worth noting is that with such tanks you do not have many development options in terms of dilutions and absolute control over contrast and grain.
Also, inside this type of tanks development residue builds up quickly. I had in the past a Rodinax 60, bought like new and in one year it had much solid waste here and there coming of and contaminating the negs. If i could get comfortable with the steel reels, I could replace my paterson tank with a steel tank and reels.

trendland · Jun 26, 2017

zanxion72 said:
Excited? Why? It does not beat my paterson tank, bought for 10 USD that develops, film of almost any size from 16mm and up.
Also, worth noting is that with such tanks you do not have many development options in terms of dilutions and absolute control over contrast and grain.
Also, inside this type of tanks development residue builds up quickly. I had in the past a Rodinax 60, bought like new and in one year it had much solid waste here and there coming of and contaminating the negs. If i could get comfortable with the steel reels, I could replace my paterson tank with a steel tank and reels.

That is also my point of view.
DESIGN FOLLOWES FUNCTION !
Nice looking (from the pictures)
AND to daylight use of cause....but the main properties are to me the reels.
Are they praktical with this Daylight Tank ?

with regards

jvo · Jun 26, 2017

i get it...

although i have no problem with my metal tanks and reels, if i did this looks clean and functional. nice

toro_mike · Jun 26, 2017

Definitely excited filmamigo! I backed that Kickstarter and am really looking forward to delivery. It's geared toward people like me, who don't have as much time to dedicate to this as we would like.

zanxion72 said:
Excited? Why? It does not beat my paterson tank, bought for 10 USD that develops, film of almost any size from 16mm and up.
Also, worth noting is that with such tanks you do not have many development options in terms of dilutions and absolute control over contrast and grain.
Also, inside this type of tanks development residue builds up quickly. I had in the past a Rodinax 60, bought like new and in one year it had much solid waste here and there coming of and contaminating the negs. If i could get comfortable with the steel reels, I could replace my paterson tank with a steel tank and reels.

I'm not sure I understand why this type of tank would limit dilutions. Sure, your agitation options are going to be somewhat limited compared to an inversion tank, but you do have the option of using less chemicals and performing constant agitation, or filling the tank completely and performing intermittent agitation. This is the same as my plastic tanks, with those spinning sticks and I am certainly NOT limited to certain dilutions

Residue is not a problem in any of my plastic reels/tanks, but maybe this thing has more nooks and crannies for residue to build up? A thorough cleaning regiment should alleviate this, or has in my experience.

Helios 1984 · Jun 26, 2017

Why do I have the feeling that some folks are trying to make it a competition between Paterson and what's different? Nobody is trying to replace your Peterson tanks guys, it's mainly very practical alternative that will make film development more attractive to folks who don't have access to a darkroom and don't want fiddle with a light tight bag (That's why I use my Rondinax). If this device manage to attract folks into the dark side, that's a win.

trendland · Jun 26, 2017

Helios 1984 said:
Why do I have the feeling that some folks are trying to make it a competition between Paterson and what's different? Nobody is trying to replace your Peterson tanks guys, it's mainly very practical alternative that will make film development more attractive to folks who don't have access to a darkroom and don't want fiddle with a light tight bag (That's why I use my Rondinax). If this device manage to attract folks into the dark side, that's a win.

Quite good arguments Helios but at least
it is allways depending to the price AND
(to me) to the reliability AND the long live of a product.
Therefore I doubt a bit to the 2.) and 3.)
I mentioned as my personal statement to this stylished designt tank.
But you got me in reality Helios.
I should buy a big paterson tank system in the nearest future. It is indeed urgent and I forgot this sometimes.
My original Kaiser drum is antic.

with regards

Ome Kees · Jun 26, 2017

Looks much like the rondinax tanks. Works great for 135 and old curly 120 films but not so good for modern flat 120.

John Wiegerink · Jun 26, 2017

I have the real McCoy. Two Rodinax 60 120's and a Rodinax 35(Like the Leitz version. They do work nicely once you figure out how to do it, but actually I don't use them anymore.

zanxion72 · Jun 26, 2017

Take this for example, if you want to use a 1+10 dilution and the developer/film calls for 10ml as the minimum stock developer to fully develop a roll of 135/36 film. Do the math and figure out how much could fit in it. Even worse, try 500ml of solution that is the standard for many 1+3 dilutions. It is so close, but that tank just cannot.
I can see many that have no idea of what is the minimum of developer they can use to develop a roll of film and an equal many that have no idea of what a satisfactory developed negative looks like.

Finally, look at it price-wise; if the job can be perfectly done with that cheapo tank you bought from ebay, why spend a notable amount of money for one like this? And thinking that in order to be able to develop 135 and 120 films you will have to buy two different "modules" for it making up for an unreasonably high total.

Nah! I'd better spend that on film. My trusty paterson system 4 with a cheapo, but perfectly lightproof chinese changing bag work all the time, day and night (now during night as 42 deg C by day give to film development a hard time).

toro_mike said:
Definitely excited filmamigo! I backed that Kickstarter and am really looking forward to delivery. It's geared toward people like me, who don't have as much time to dedicate to this as we would like.

I'm not sure I understand why this type of tank would limit dilutions. Sure, your agitation options are going to be somewhat limited compared to an inversion tank, but you do have the option of using less chemicals and performing constant agitation, or filling the tank completely and performing intermittent agitation. This is the same as my plastic tanks, with those spinning sticks and I am certainly NOT limited to certain dilutions

Residue is not a problem in any of my plastic reels/tanks, but maybe this thing has more nooks and crannies for residue to build up? A thorough cleaning regiment should alleviate this, or has in my experience.

John Wiegerink · Jun 27, 2017

zanxion72 said:
Take this for example, if you want to use a 1+10 dilution and the developer/film calls for 10ml as the minimum stock developer to fully develop a roll of 135/36 film. Do the math and figure out how much could fit in it. Even worse, try 500ml of solution that is the standard for many 1+3 dilutions. It is so close, but that tank just cannot.
I can see many that have no idea of what is the minimum of developer they can use to develop a roll of film and an equal many that have no idea of what a satisfactory developed negative looks like.

Finally, look at it price-wise; if the job can be perfectly done with that cheapo tank you bought from ebay, why spend a notable amount of money for one like this? And thinking that in order to be able to develop 135 and 120 films you will have to buy two different "modules" for it making up for an unreasonably high total.

Nah! I'd better spend that on film. My trusty paterson system 4 with a cheapo, but perfectly lightproof chinese changing bag work all the time, day and night (now during night as 42 deg C by day give to film development a hard time).

Yup, if you have a darkroom or totally dark space to load then there is no need for these tanks. I have a very nice darkroom and that's why I don't use the three I have. Since I posted last I just went on eBad Auction and can see by the price they are listed at that it's time for mine to go.

zanxion72 · Jun 27, 2017

John Wiegerink said:
Yup, if you have a darkroom or totally dark space to load then there is no need for these tanks. I have a very nice darkroom and that's why I don't use the three I have. Since I posted last I just went on eBad Auction and can see by the price they are listed at that it's time for mine to go.

I thought of letting mine go too, but it is that stupid thing with me that makes one keep at home a pile of useless things. I have to get rid of many and this will be one of them.

John Wiegerink · Jun 27, 2017

zanxion72 said:
I thought of letting mine go too, but it is that stupid thing with me that makes one keep at home a pile of useless things. I have to get rid of many and this will be one of them.

And my wife thought I was the only one! We have a TV show here in the States that's called "Hoarder" and it shows how Hoarders live and what they hoard, which is just about everything and anything. My wife threatens to sign me up to be on that show. I try to tell her I only hoard photo gear, but that falls on deaf ears. Some people just don't understand that I might use that someday. Ya, right! At 67yrs of age it's highly unlikely.

zanxion72 · Jun 27, 2017

John Wiegerink said:
And my wife thought I was the only one! We have a TV show here in the States that's called "Hoarder" and it shows how Hoarders live and what they hoard, which is just about everything and anything. My wife threatens to sign me up to be on that show. I try to tell her I only hoard photo gear, but that falls on deaf ears. Some people just don't understand that I might use that someday. Ya, right! At 67yrs of age it's highly unlikely.

All wives behave the same! Here is the proof of it.

Alan Johnson · Jun 27, 2017

These are also daylight loading, 35mm only, go for about $75 on ebay if you can find one.
I have been using them for years, no problems.

John Wiegerink · Jun 27, 2017

Alan Johnson said:
These are also daylight loading, 35mm only, go for about $75 on ebay if you can find one.
I have been using them for years, no problems.

To be very honest Alan I never new that one existed. You learn something new everyday I guess. Is it fast and fool proof?

Alan Johnson · Jun 27, 2017

John Wiegerink said:
Is it fast and fool proof?

I think so, John, it takes a couple of minutes for me to load. I think they are rare because they were always expensive, costing several times the Paterson tank and best suited to those who process a lot of 35mm films.

Gerald C Koch · Jun 27, 2017

John Wiegerink said:
I have the real McCoy. Two Rodinax 60 120's and a Rodinax 35(Like the Leitz version. They do work nicely once you figure out how to do it, but actually I don't use them anymore.

+1

I too have a Rodinax and have never used it. When doing roll film including 35mm I can load a SS reel every minute. I do have a similar contraption for Minox film which would prevent handling the film. However it requires breaking the cassette which are now very hard to find.

At least for me this is a solution in search of a problem.

filmamigo · Jun 27, 2017

No doubt that this lab-box is more expensive than a Patterson tank. But my time is extremely limited, and I rarely shoot more than one or two rolls in a day. With this tank, I can sit at the kitchen counter with my wife, wind in a roll of film and have the whole thing processed in twenty minutes. That sounds better than spending twenty minutes struggling inside a dark tent, and THEN processing.

Kudos to those who can load faster, or who prefer a traditional tank, or who marvel at the wasted expenditure on expensive tanks.

But my goal is to actually process my film the day I shoot it. This is the tank that will help me do that.

As for capacity and dilution, I'm not doing anything exotic enough to worry. At this point I'm 100% Diafine. I might get crazy and try some HC110 in average dilutions...

MattKing · Jun 27, 2017

This may actually be one of the worst places to ask the question.
Most here have already found a solution for their film development needs.

filmamigo · Jun 27, 2017

MattKing said:
This may actually be one of the worst places to ask the question.
Most here have already found a solution for their film development needs.

Ha! Too true.

I guess for me this is a "better mousetrap." I actually considered trying to make a similar contraption with a 3D printer -- so seeing the kickstarter was a great moment. Someone else did the hard work, and I get to enjoy it!

railwayman3 · Jun 27, 2017

I had a Rondinex 60 many years ago.....it worked as intended, but the continuous agitation and the subsequent washing-up and drying of the various parts was a bit time-consuming if you had several films to process. I think that I gave it away (unless it's still in the attic!), which was perhaps a mistake considering the $$$ they now fetch on Ebay.
Once you've mastered the loading of conventional reels (not difficult, particularly if you practice with a scrap film in daylight), it's usually possible to find a temporary dark area or closet to load, or even a changing bag. I don't, personally, need to process away from home, and we have an understair walk-in store-room which is totally dark even in summer.
I checked out the Kickstarter and was interested, but, given the suggested cost, I wasn't excited enough to contribute at this stage.

Helios 1984 · Jun 27, 2017

filmamigo said:
Ha! Too true.

I guess for me this is a "better mousetrap." I actually considered trying to make a similar contraption with a 3D printer -- so seeing the kickstarter was a great moment. Someone else did the hard work, and I get to enjoy it!

Maybe you could 3D print replacement parts for the Rondinaxes? I'm sure it would interest more than a few.

Thomas71 · Jun 27, 2017

Hi, Ars Imago is my main supplier of films, chemicals, paper and everything I need for my b&w works. They are very professional, with the lowest prices and the widest assortment of material here in Italy.
I have not ordered yet the Lab Box, but I think it represents a great idea, a useful and well designed tool which can attract new people to try the b&w experience. Ok, I know that you can do the same job with a Paterson but, at the beginning, it's not so easy to load a film in a darkroom bag; the risk of ruining your best film is very high!
The anolog photography world is a slow-down and even more expensive world (Kodak and Fuji are gradually reducing their range of products and the new-comers as Bergger are offering poor quality for the price), so we should not have a negative attitude towards a new product from a new and young company as Ars Imago.
As by italian tradition, Lab Box is very stylish and I am convinced that it is also functional. About the price I think that 100 eur is a fair price, considerig that it's the equivalent of only 20 tri-x rolls in 6x6 format....
Cheers from Italy!
Thomas

Is anyone else excited about the Ars Imago Lab-Box?

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