Is an archival print washer a must????

23mjm · Mar 8, 2008

Greeting all far and wide:

So I have been printing pics for years but on RC paper because I am lazy. Years ago I used fiber, not that I am getting older I feel I need more fiber in my diet. Actually I do like the looks of fiber paper better--so do I need a archival washer? Or can I use the rapid fix--5 min wash--10 min Hypo clearing stuff--5 min wash and get archival quality?

Thank you all

Ian Grant · Mar 8, 2008

No, you need to wash for much longer than 5 minutes after the Hypo clear. Incidentally you can save a lot of money and use a 1% solution of Sodium Sulphite or Potassium/Sodium Carbonate they work just as effectively.

You don't need an archival print washer, just wash well in a tray or the bath for about an hour

Ian

david b · Mar 8, 2008

Kodak suggests a 20 minute wash after using the Hypo Clear.

Permawash suggests a 5 minute wash after using their product.

I just checked the packaging on these products.

walter23 · Mar 8, 2008

I usually wash with flowing water for 30 mins in a big 20x24 tray, with periodic rotation of whatever sheets I have in it (usually 11x14s), but a print washer would be easier.

Dave Miller · Mar 8, 2008

No, you don't need one, as has been said above, you can use a tray, however a purpose made print washer that can cope with 5 or mor prints at one time will make life much easier.

bdial · Mar 8, 2008

The problem I find with tray washing is that unless you have substantial water flow, the prints tend to clump together, and so, don't wash effectively.

wildbill · Mar 8, 2008

Fish tank, 4ft section of flexible tubing for siphon. $40 16x20 washer.

mono · Mar 8, 2008

It`s not a MUST, but much easier to handle!

PeterB · Mar 8, 2008

something's a bit fishy about that tank....

wildbill said:
Fish tank, 4ft section of flexible tubing for siphon. $40 16x20 washer.

So why would people pay so much money for the "proper" archival print washers if a fish tank works just as well ?

Peter

Dave Miller · Mar 8, 2008

PeterB said:
So why would people pay so much money for the "proper" archival print washers if a fish tank works just as well ?

Peter

Prints in an archival washer can be left alone whilst washing since each has it's own wash slot, and cannot therefore stick together.

removed account4 · Mar 8, 2008

i have a 11x14 print washer and never use it.
i just fill soak dump in trays.

Lee Shively · Mar 8, 2008

I would be skeptical of the short wash time recommended by some hypo clearing agent makers. The sad fact is that a poorly washed print will not show the results until some point in the future--sometimes years. I speak from experience on that score.

An archival washer is not a necessity but, as others have pointed out, it does save time and labor. A very efficient washer is the old Kodak tray siphon. I don't think these are still being made but if you can locate one, get it. I still use the same tray siphon I bought in the early 1970s for pre-rinsing prints prior to toning and hypo clearing. For only washing only a few prints, the tray siphon does a great job but does require separating the prints to keep them from bunching up.

removed account4 · Mar 8, 2008

PeterB said:
So why would people pay so much money for the "proper" archival print washers if a fish tank works just as well ?

Peter

hi peter -

people buy the "proper" washers because
they don't want to build one themselves
or they think it will work better, or they heard
or read they work better, or ...

there are lots of different ways to wash prints ..
lots of water in a big washer is one,
soaking and dumping a handful of times is another

i used to love using a rotary washer-
a big perferated drum that spins
in a cube of water when i was a student.

not sure how well it worked, but it was fun to watch
as it slowly went around and around.

john

Jim Jones · Mar 8, 2008

Print washers are practical for making many prints in one session. Tray washing can be very efficient for a few prints. I devlop, fis, and rinse fiber prints before puting them in a holding tank. Then, after a hypo clearing bath they are shuffled several times in each of several water trays. Draining thoroughly between trays reduces carry-over. Video, music, or a good audio book make this phase pass pleasantly.

jmcd · Mar 8, 2008

moving prints in archival washer

Even with a dedicated archival washer, I do not just let my prints sit there. Moving the prints while washing is a good thing, I think. For one, it encourages water flow over the whole print, gets rid of surface bubbles.

Bob F. · Mar 8, 2008

One option I used was a large plastic tub with a Paterson RC print drying rack in it to keep the prints separate. This would work with a fish-tank too of course. Rinse after the hypo clear and then 6 x 10-15 minute soaks (probably over-kill, but better that than under-kill).

Broke the rack (don't ask) and bought a "proper" washer which I use in the same way but it's easier to drain than with the syphon I used with the tub. If you can control the water flow and temperature to the required levels you can of course use running water.

Have fun, Bob.

donbga · Mar 8, 2008

Dave Miller said:
No, you don't need one, as has been said above, you can use a tray, however a purpose made print washer that can cope with 5 or mor prints at one time will make life much easier.

What Dave said.

Martin Aislabie · Mar 8, 2008

I have an archival washer but do a reality check before using it.
Most of my prints are work-in-progress - therefore don't need any special wash before they go in the recycle bin
Only the one-off final prints which are of very best work get the achival wash
They are so (unfortunately) few and far between that a tray/hose/syphon would probably do the trick
If you sell your work - it needs an achival wash
However my name is not A Adams and I cannot really see a prestigious Museum coming to my door to beg for a copy of my life's work and so wonder do I really need to go through the rigorous washing process?
We are all prone to be influenced by the suggestion of advertising into buying things we don't really need
I am sure your work is good enough to be wanted and desired by future generations
Mine is unfortunately not
So why achival wash my prints?
Martin

Chuck_P · Mar 8, 2008

However you wash your prints, you can use Photographers's Formulary Residual Hypo Test (RHT) until it shows "negative" for residual fixer (actually, according to Steve Anchell in his book, "negative" means that residual fixer is at or below a minimum threshhold). I also do as he suggests, when it shows negative, I add 15% more to the wash time for good measure.

jgjbowen · Mar 8, 2008

Is an archival print washer a "must have?" ---no.

Is an archival print washer an great time saving tool? -- yes.

I went a few years using a Kodak tray siphon and multiple tray water "dumps". Now that I have a washer, there is no going back. If it broke, I would be looking to purchase a replacement the following day. They are also wonderful for washing 8x10 and larger films. The ability to wash 32 8x10 prints in a 16x20 washer is great. You also use the same amount of water whether washing 1 print or 32.

23mjm · Mar 8, 2008

OK since I am lazy and washers make it easier it looks like the concensus is to get one.

So are Versalab washers any good or should I look elsewhere?????

jeroldharter · Mar 8, 2008

No, you don't need an archival washer but you don't need a car or health insurance either. If you do much fiber based printing, get a decent print washer. They are expensive so if they cost too much do a DIY aquarium project.

David Brown · Mar 8, 2008

23mjm said:
So are Versalab washers any good or should I look elsewhere?????

In my opinion, the Versalab is fine. It fills from the top and syphons off the bottom. It uses a very low volume of water flow. The tank is one piece (no seams to crack) and probably indestructable under normal use.

23mjm · Mar 8, 2008

David Brown said:
In my opinion, the Versalab is fine. It fills from the top and syphons off the bottom. It uses a very low volume of water flow. The tank is one piece (no seams to crack) and probably indestructable under normal use.

Hummmmmmm indestructible----goooooood

Give me a cast iron cannon ball and a Q-tip, I'll break the cannon ball with the Q-tip

Terence · Mar 8, 2008

jeroldharter said:
No, you don't need an archival washer but you don't need a car or health insurance either. If you do much fiber based printing, get a decent print washer. They are expensive so if they cost too much do a DIY aquarium project.

Ironically, I now own a 16x20 print washer, but since I haven't owned a car in ten years, it'll take me a few days before I figure out how to get it home.

Is an archival print washer a must????

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