Is a timer necessary?

IloveTLRs · Jan 24, 2010

I was walking around my local camera supply shop last night, looking at enlargers. I've been meaning to setup a darkroom recently and so I was pricing things. I found a timer, but it was $200

It's been a while since I've done prints (almost 15 years) and I was wondering, is a timer necessary? Can't you just turn the light on and off? What are average exposure times for a daylight scene?

Sorry again, but like I said it's been almost 15 years and I don't really remember anything except putting the prints in the trays of water.

thisismyname09 · Jan 24, 2010

Up until last christmas, I didn't have a timer. I used a pocket watch and turned the light on and off by hand. It works fine if you have exposures longer than a second or two.

vdoak · Jan 24, 2010

I use a metronome to keep track of time, turn on the enlarger light with a switch and use a gray card for a "shutter" (the same one i use for burning and dodging). The metronome is accurate but is a cheap electronic one. I try to set up exposures that are in the 12 to 15 second range. This is so I have time for burning and dodging.

Micky · Jan 24, 2010

sure it can be done, and I've been doing it.....but a timer is a great thing to have, and I wouldn't like to go back to timing by hand.

Denis P. · Jan 24, 2010

Strictly speaking, a timer isn't REALLY necessary - meaning that you can expose paper under the enlarger without it. But, it sure makes life in the darkroom a lot easier.

My advice: check the local ebay or similar "for sale" secondhand ads, and I'm sure you'll find something quite a lot cheaper - meaning something in the $10-$20 range, which is quite reasonable.

Tim Gray · Jan 24, 2010

I did it when I first started by just counting. It worked pretty decently - consistency was alright. However, a timer makes things SO much easier and enjoyable. I would get a digital one.

mgb74 · Jan 24, 2010

I don't know supply and demand for darkroom gear in Japan, but $200 is A LOT for a timer, even a new one, unless it has a lot of bells and whistles. Here in US, I'd expect to pay $10 to $50 for a used one, depending on type (mechanical or electronic), features and condition. The price difference between used darkroom equipment and new darkroom equipment is huge. If nothing available locally, check the ads here in APUG; I'm sure you can get one a lot cheaper even after factoring shipping to Japan.

mooseontheloose · Jan 24, 2010

It's not just Japan -- here in Canada used basic Gralab timers go for $150-$200 in camera stores used sections. I got mine, like new, off ebay for $25. And of course, just afterwards, I was given another one when I bought my enlarger. IloveTLRs -- if you are interested in this timer, please send me a pm -- I'm willing to pass it on to you for the cost of shipping.

Anscojohn · Jan 24, 2010

As others have said, a timer is great convenience, but not vital. I learned with one, one thousand, two, one thousand, three......... I now have a programmable electronic timer I built years ago from a Heathkit. I still count to myself, as the exposure is being made.

One thing: make up some kind of simple foot switch so you do not touch the enlarger cord. A friend made one for me using a rubber door stop, a push switch, lamp cord, and end plugs. Works great.

Ian Grant · Jan 24, 2010

While I echo John's comments I now prefer a timer, I've had one for years, a Phillips bought in the early 70's it has a meter that can be calibrated and it'll even tell you what grade paper to use (via a chart).

However when printing long runs commercially (70's/80's) we never used a timer, on occasions we'd do runs of 100/200 or more prints off each of a number of negatives for Press Releases etc and we'd use the red filter below the lens instead of a timer flicking it in & out of the light path. We had remarkably consistent results but we were used to working this way.

I still count while burning & dodging.

Ian

Vincent Brady · Jan 24, 2010

vdoak said:
I use a metronome to keep track of time, turn on the enlarger light with a switch and use a gray card for a "shutter" (the same one i use for burning and dodging). The metronome is accurate but is a cheap electronic one. I try to set up exposures that are in the 12 to 15 second range. This is so I have time for burning and dodging.

A friend of mine also uses a metronome in his darkroom work and I can't understand why. While his work is excellent I'm sure that that an electronic timer would allow him so much more freedom when printing. I just cannot imagine myself doing without my timer which is also an F stop timer.

ic-racer · Jan 24, 2010

I'm sure many of those mechanical Time-o-light timers get thrown out every day in the US. Maybe someone will send you one for the price of postage to Japan . I gave mine away about 10 years ago (all my current enlargers have integrated digital timers).

Craig Swensson · Jan 24, 2010

QUOTE
It's not just Japan -- here in Canada used basic Gralab timers go for $150-$200 in camera stores used sections. I got mine, like new, off ebay for $25. And of course, just afterwards, I was given another one when I bought my enlarger. IloveTLRs -- if you are interested in this timer, please send me a pm -- I'm willing to pass it on to you for the cost of shipping.

This is a part of why APUG is such an exellent place, good on you.

Now TLR lover, take him up on this offer, and a small portion of that $200.00 can go to APUG as a suscriber

MattKing · Jan 24, 2010

I'd answer the question by saying that a timer is necessary, just not absolutely necessary.

I think it depends on your enlarger, and the size of enlargements you make.

If most of your prints are made using exposure times of 30 seconds plus, you can get good results without one.

If you are regularly printing for 4, 6 or 8 seconds, or if you start making more complex prints, with lots of careful burns and dodges, a timer is a lot more important.

I've used a timer for 30+ years, but I have also worked in newspaper darkrooms without one, and can do a mean "one thousand and one, one thousand and two, one thousand and three ...."

Matt

sun of sand · Jan 24, 2010

I use a timer, ticks of a clock and internal mississippi clock equally
usually all regardless of whether using the timer
final printing I use the timer but the setting of the timer up to then is probably half based on test strips and same internal clock/memory I've built over time that I wouldn't have IMO if were to have never counted seconds/beats
i believe counting internalizes the time better than relying on a machine would
I know MY time ..because I've synched to a machine for a "baseline" to draw from
I'd be much less accurate if I were to tell you when each tick is taking place by clock movement memory alone
The structure provides the accuracy

By this I mean over the span of a minute I may be off somewhat sometime/s
-usually sense that I am-
and so because of the internal rhythm can speed up or slow down to correct for the perceived difference
which I always seem to do by the end of the timing

A clock/timer is perfect so why bother keeping track yourself
up to you
I'd rather have it than not even if no help in the darkroom

I timed myself
1 second
results
.93
.91
on the last I made up for the slowness and got 1.03
10 seconds
9.62
10.35 slow
10.25
30 seconds no counting just rhythm
32.56
booya lol

anyway why apug? send some saved money to haiti! Or even...........................................
Lets just give all our disposable income to nee

LOL

".lots of careful burns and dodges, a timer is a lot more important"
I disagree
just to show variety of ways

Ross Chambers · Jan 25, 2010

Anscojohn said:
I still count to myself, as the exposure is being made.

Aaargh! OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder)

Me too (what if the battery is flat in the timer, or the mains power drops out?)

My advice: start with a top of the line timer, otherwise suffer the compulsive counting syndrome implanted in the brain from the use of devises like metronomes.

RalphLambrecht · Jan 25, 2010

You don't need a timer for casual work, but high-quality work is difficult to do consistently without a timer. 1/12 f/stop difference can easily be seen in highlights and midtones, but it's hard to time with anything but a good timer. Also, many tests to understand materials and calibrate darkroom processes depend on a timer. I picked up the metronome idea and it works fine for timing dodging and burning, but the sound can drive you nuts after a while if used for all timing processes. Get a good timer, you won't regret it. Consider f/stop timing while you're at this point, but be aware that most timers won't support it.

Blacknoise · Jan 25, 2010

i use a metronome too, but i think i might buy a timer when payday comes...

Nicholas Lindan · Jan 25, 2010

RalphLambrecht said:
Consider f/stop timing while you're at this point, but be aware that most timers won't support it.

Now, hold on there. All timers worth buying support it.

Tim Gray · Jan 25, 2010

Another great thing is a timer with a foot switch. Useful for dodging and burning. I ended up with the RH Designs StopClock Pro, but the Darkroom Automation one looks great too. Both f-stop timers.

jeffreyg · Jan 25, 2010

I agree with Ralph. I use a metronome when burning or dodging but it is connected to my electronic timer and has an independent off/on switch. My timer was a good investment and has been reliable for many years. If you are using multigrade papers and more than one filter for a print at different times for each it certainly comes in handy.

removed account4 · Jan 25, 2010

timers can be useful.
i have 2 of them, one for
the enlarger/s and one for the wetside.

if you need one, check out the classy-fides there
is one with a foot switch for cheap, and every few weeks there
is another for sale ... while it isn't absolutely necessary
a timer can be helpful.

RalphLambrecht · Jan 25, 2010

Nicholas Lindan said:
Now, hold on there. All timers worth buying support it.

True. Let me rephrase.

Too many timers don't support f/timing.

RalphLambrecht · Jan 25, 2010

Tim Gray said:
Another great thing is a timer with a foot switch. Useful for dodging and burning. I ended up with the RH Designs StopClock Pro, but the Darkroom Automation one looks great too. Both f-stop timers.

I never got used to the foot switch. After stepping on it accidently a few times, I threw it out.

photoncatcher · Jan 25, 2010

I've seen some good deals on all darkroom equipment on the "bay". Timers included. I also have a few I may be listng soon.

Is a timer necessary?

IloveTLRs

thisismyname09

vdoak

Micky

Denis P.

Tim Gray

mgb74

mooseontheloose

Anscojohn

Ian Grant

Vincent Brady

ic-racer

Craig Swensson

MattKing

Moderator

sun of sand

Ross Chambers

RalphLambrecht

Blacknoise

Nicholas Lindan

Advertiser

Tim Gray

jeffreyg

removed account4

RalphLambrecht

RalphLambrecht

photoncatcher

Is a timer necessary?

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