is a blank negative completely and truly negative?

himself · Jan 12, 2013

mornin'

been tryin' to get some paper negs going, but having some problems so far.
my first efforts came out a little over developed, my corrections then led to the issue I'm having now, a somewhat backwards step, getting worse if you will.

so it's like this, my images are now white, like totally white, not thing one there. I checked my exposure with a digi camera and that's ok, not perfect but ok. So I figure it's something wrong with the process.

I'm developing for 2.40minutes in rodinal 1:100, stop in ilford and fixed in ilford rapid fix, 1+9 for 3 mins. All at 20 degrees.

as I began to say, my original go was rodinal 1:100 for 4minutes and it came out over developed, twice...

have I reduced the time too much?
any other ideas?

thanks

ic-racer · Jan 12, 2013

Rodinal for paper? Depending on how much volume of chemistry is in your trays, you might get only one 8x10 sheet per tray-full if you are diluting to 100:1. So, are you sure you chemistry is good?
I use Dektol at 1:3 for paper negatives.

himself · Jan 12, 2013

yep, works, or worked... or in fact sort of worked

ic-racer · Jan 12, 2013

You can put a little piece of paper in the developer tray in white light and see it get black? Then you have not exposed the paper correctly in the camera. Is you shutter opening, are the film holders loaded correctly, did you forget to pull the darkslide, etc.

Steve Smith · Jan 12, 2013

ic-racer said:
Rodinal for paper?

Yes. It was originally sold for use with film and paper.

Steve.

himself · Jan 12, 2013

ic-racer said:
You can put a little piece of paper in the developer tray in white light and see it get black

I'll try that. I put everything away for the moment and have no more images to try, sort of collecting info at the moment.
the rest tho', darkslide, shutter, all good.

and to answer the edit of your last post, I'm only trying tiny little paper at the moment and managed to get at least 2 - badly developed - images yesterday with 1:100.

Joe VanCleave · Jan 12, 2013

A 1:100 dilution of Rodinal is barely enough, even for film, without leaving it in the solution for, like, an hour or more.

And film developer used at film-strength dilutions for paper (much stronger than the OP's 1:100) still leaves paper very much under-developed.

I don't know why you want to use film developer for paper negatives, or specifically why Rodinal. If you've chosen Rodinal for its excellent keeping properties in storage as a liquid concentrate, then try the equivalent of Agfa Neutol WA paper developer, it has the same excellent keeping properties of Rodinal and is designed to work with paper as a paper developer.

If you are using film developer to help control contrast, my advice from years of paper negative work is to start with standard paper developer, then fine-tune your process from there. Some people report good results from a split-development regimen of paper and film developer, while others report good results from a highly dilute paper development combined with sitting unagitated in a water bath, and then more developer, gauging the results by inspection. So there's a lot to learn here.

If you are using film developer just because that's all you had on-hand, go get some concentrated liquid paper developer and have another go at it. I loved using Agfa Neutol WA when it was available, now I use Ilford PQ liquid concentrate. I prefer the liquid concentrates because they keep better than stock solutions mixed from powders.

Good luck and keep us posted.

~Joe

himself · Jan 12, 2013

just checked, in daylight the paper turns black after 5 and a half minutes at 17 degrees...

Steve Smith · Jan 12, 2013

Joe VanCleave said:
I don't know why you want to use film developer for paper negatives

From this page:http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Rodinal/rodinal.html

Within twenty years of its invention Rodinal was so widely used for both film and paper that it merited its own listing in Bernard Jones Encyclopedia of Photography

Steve.

heterolysis · Jan 13, 2013

If the test strips are working, then most likely the developing time was reduced too much or the exposure wasn't correct.

Are you not tray developing under a safelight? You would be able to see it developing and not stop at 2:40 if it wasn't long enough.

Otherwise, did you expose the wrong side of the paper? ....It's happened to me more than I would care to admit.

himself · Jan 13, 2013

heterolysis said:
If the test strips are working, then most likely the developing time was reduced too much or the exposure wasn't correct.

Are you not tray developing under a safelight? You would be able to see it developing and not stop at 2:40 if it wasn't long enough.

Otherwise, did you expose the wrong side of the paper? ....It's happened to me more than I would care to admit.

I'm not tray developing because I don't have a permanent darkroom at the moment. if at 17 degrees 5 1/5 is enough then at 20 degrees it should be around 3 minutes right? give or take.

so I'll try more developing time.

Another problem I have is that I can only shoot one, process one, shoot one - process, so it all takes a long time. anyway, nevermind.

Bill Burk · Jan 13, 2013

himself said:
Another problem I have is that I can only shoot one, process one, shoot one - process, so it all takes a long time. anyway, nevermind.

Sounds like you are on the right track.

Just don't do what I did last night or the other day. With these low concentrations things can go wrong. I made both mistakes...

1. Stir the developer to completely mix it.
2. Don't wash out the mixing vessel after adding the 1 part of concentrate.

Yup I meant to develop in Dektol 1:9, and instead I carefully measured 1 part Dektol. Asked my wife what's 9 times 3. She told me 27 and I carelessly rinsed out the beaker, added 9 parts water and saw it was short of the 30 ounces total, so I added 3 more ounces of water.

I developed a roll of film for 5 minutes in 10 parts water last night.

himself · Jan 13, 2013

that's unfortunate, I know I shouldn't but I did laugh

himself · Jan 14, 2013

it finally worked ha-cha-cha...

the positive was inverted in photoshop for now, but I'm gonna try making a positive in camera later.
the final working solution was:

dev: 1:100 rodinal, 20 degrees, 5.30 minutes
stop and fix to manufacturer specs.

so a couple more questions, how do you stop them curling? and what's the best way to meter making a positive? bearing in mind I'll be using a camera instead of a "real" enlarger. Is it ok to just meter as if I was simply taking a picture?

nicholai · Jan 20, 2013

Just a bit curious; how did you check exposure on your digital (that has a minimum of ISO 100) against papers that are... what.. ISO 3?

himself · Jan 21, 2013

I tested at iso 100 and then worked it down in whole stops from there

is a blank negative completely and truly negative?

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency