Investing in a Sekonic

MattKrull · Apr 1, 2015

Rick A said:
I would happily swap my Minolta Auto Meter IIIF (which does flash metering) for a Sekonic L-398.

Geniune curiousity here (as opposed to trying to defend my purchase): Why?

The L-398 seems to be an updated version of the L-28c2 I have, and other than being small and battery free. What is it about the Sekonic that you like and would give up flash metering for?

BTW- I agree the 6x silver button batteries are a pain. That pain is slightly mitigated in my case because I use Olympus OM cameras, and they use the same battery. I buy them in bulk packaging for $2CND/each on amazon.ca ( http://www.amazon.ca/Energizer-Batteries-SR44SW-SR44W-LR44/dp/B000RB05LG ). Much cheaper than $3.50US each from B&H (or god forbid the $10/each I paid once at a pharmacy *sigh*).

Rick A · Apr 1, 2015

I much prefer the Sekonic analog. I had and used mine for over 30 years, and I miss it. I picked up the Minolta for my daughter to use, she didn't like it and it sat unused in a gear bag because she continually borrowed my L-398. I don't like buying batteries. I have an OM-4 that I don't use any more, I use my OM-1 and hand held meter. I don't use flash either, so no need for the flash setting on the meter. I suppose you can call me a dinosaur, or Ludite, just my preferences. The Sekonic never suffered from a dead battery.

wiltw · Apr 1, 2015

LMNOP said:
I DO like the idea of a dedicated instrument for measuring light. I guess my curiosity was how much better will this make my accuracy? It sounds like a pretty significant difference. While I don't plan on measuring flash at the moment, it would be a good thing to have going forward. Though I cannot yet imagine how I will meter landscapes, I have to get a hands on experience with it.

One should understand fundamentally what is DIFFERENT about various meters, before buying!

An in-camera TTL meter is a REFLECTED light meter that sees only what the lens sees (at the widest) and can see a narrow area of about 1.5% of the frame (5DIII in spot mode), but are influenced by subject brightness like dark shirts vs. white dresses in the viewfinder
Most hand held meters use a frosted hemisphere to measure INCIDENT light -- the amount of light which falls upon the scene -- and is not influenced by dark shirts vs. white dresses
Hand held meters which also have a REFLECTED light mode see a fixed angle (e.g. 45 degrees) or a narrow angle spot (e.g. 5 degree spot attachment, or 1 degree narrow angle meters), and are subject to the same subject brightness errors (dark shirts, white dresses) that affect in-camera meters.

Jerevan · Apr 1, 2015

I use a L308s at the moment since I gave away my L-398 a few years ago to a friend. Every now and then I question myself as to my mental state at the time ...

Either works great for the stuff I do - outdoors in daylight. I do have a preference for dials so I may be getting another L-398 with the extras before someone decides to cut the production.

Chris G · Apr 1, 2015

I have the Sekonic L-558, it is similar to what you are looking at except it has a 1 degree reflective meter as well. I have experimented with different apps in the past and I was always disappointed with the results. I don't think you can go wrong with any of the Sekonic meters. Having the ability to measure flash and to be able to very quickly measure ambient +flash in outdoor fill flash situations is indispensable.

pentaxuser · Apr 1, 2015

LMNOP said:
This is a strange interpretation of what I said, maybe coming from a high tower of wisdom or some anti-technology syndrome.
Nonetheless, I appreciate the input, as always. I love to learn from others!

It may be a generation thing. Think of Bill Burk as Randolph Scott and Snapguy as Gabby Hayes or possibly Fess Parker and Buddy Ebsen . A contribution from both enhances the thread as it did the films.

I am reminded of the time when Richard Widmark at a Hollywood celebratory event many years ago but at the start of the so-called modern era told Jimmy Stewart it was time to saddle-up again in protest at the kind of Westerns they had been making in that modern era. The sentiment here might be similar

If none of the above names mean anything, look up both on wikipedia and enjoy "the simpler times".

pentaxuser

MartinCrabtree · Apr 1, 2015

When not using the in camera meter I have a Weston Master II along with the Invercone for incident use. No batteries but poor low light performance. I have a flash meter coming 'cause I want to try something different.

Trail Images · Apr 1, 2015

I use a Minolta spot meter as well as a Sekonic L-398. Although the L-398 is very reliable, no battery, I've had the ISO selector move on me a couple times. Not always noticeable in the heat of taking shots. Nothing like having a digital readout on a meter especially in the low light of sunrise or sunset.
I'd never give up my L-398 for an excellent backup, but I do like the digital readout of my Minolta spot meter.

LMNOP · Apr 1, 2015

FYI - I purchased a 308S today from B&H - should have it in time for the weekend, going to get out on the trail, kill a ton of film, and forget that I ever overthought this so much. I'm sure, like everything else, I will make it work in my favor and become a more accurate photographer as a result.

MartinCrabtree · Apr 1, 2015

Have fun.

Trail Images · Apr 1, 2015

I purchased a 308S today from B&H

You've made a very sound decision. In fact, I've added one to my wish list too......

Lee Rust · Apr 2, 2015

With its old-fashioned analog meter, rotating scale and funky bright-light slide, the self-powered Sekonic L-398 is an appropriate companion for my antique cameras from the 1940's and '50's. Even though I still have my dad's Norwood Director, the original American-made ancestor to the L-398, and it still works fairly well, the locking pointer and updated ISO scale on the Sekonic are distinct improvements to a timeless design.

LMNOP · Apr 2, 2015

APUGuser19 said:
You should be OK. If that's all I had, I could muddle through well enough. At least you've got some help on having something usable as a flash meter. But again, you MIGHT enjoy some accuracy out of half-power on the flash. But don't push your luck on shortening flash duration. Full flash power is where the accuracy is good. Because that meter will become more and more blind to a flash. On the other end, around dusk it just gives the error message (I forgot exactly the verbage or abbreviations the display shows, but you'll know). GL Not too shabby of a little meter for the most part. Seems to have good linearity within it's range.

Is there another model, in that price range, that I should have considered? I do a lot of low light photography, and I don't even own a flash at this point.

Trail Images · Apr 2, 2015

and I don't even own a flash at this point.

Do you plan on flash usage? I do all landscape and a little macro and have not used a flash in 30+ years now. I know many macro shooters who do.

LMNOP · Apr 4, 2015

UPDATE:

I got my Sekonic L308s in the mail, and I am sad to say that I was completely underwhelmed...

The first thing I did, straight out of the box, was measure light for a portrait subject (a coworker standing nearby) and I compared to my iPhone app... EXACT same reading. Now, this was strange because I had built up this purchase in my mind quite a bit. In addition to that, the construction of this thing felt like a hollow, plastic toy, not worth $200. I really wanted to like this thing, but the other key factor working against this model was the aperture priority. I found it incredibly confusing to start with the exposure time, and consider the f/stop second. I never do the math that way, it was bonkers.

So I took the unit out on a night shoot, and as others predicted, it does not understand low lighting. It would give me some long exposure reads to a point, but NOT at f.8 or higher, the screen just said error. My iPhone app, on the other hand, had NO issue whatsoever giving me a read on these subjects. I switched back to using the iPhone, and nearly finished a roll on my GW690, testing the Sekonic at every shot.

Honestly, the iPhone's user interface is just perfect, it gives me a live preview of the image, and lastly I can log the shots with DropBox. I packaged the L-308s back up, sending it back to B&H.

I'm not sure this style of metering is right for me.

MartinCrabtree · Apr 4, 2015

Sometimes expectations are too high. However I bet the Sekonic will be usable long after the iPhone has bitten the dust. What are you using that the in camera meter is unreliable?

Bill Burk · Apr 4, 2015

Well, sorry you were disappointed. The hollow plastic feel is nothing to be concerned about, they use printed circuits so mostly its bulk is there just to give a shape to hold in your hand. It's as functional as if they had heavy magnets of older meters.

I had a conversation with StoneNYC about these iPhone apps, he trusts them and doesn't feel it's necessary to get more involved than that. He also recommended a Reciprocity Failure app. If you are doing a lot of low light work, you should look out for that.

LMNOP · Apr 4, 2015

MartinCrabtree said:
Sometimes expectations are too high. However I bet the Sekonic will be usable long after the iPhone has bitten the dust. What are you using that the in camera meter is unreliable?

I'm using cameras with no built in meter..

LMNOP · Apr 4, 2015

Bill Burk said:
Well, sorry you were disappointed. The hollow plastic feel is nothing to be concerned about, they use printed circuits so mostly its bulk is there just to give a shape to hold in your hand. It's as functional as if they had heavy magnets of older meters.

I had a conversation with StoneNYC about these iPhone apps, he trusts them and doesn't feel it's necessary to get more involved than that. He also recommended a Reciprocity Failure app. If you are doing a lot of low light work, you should look out for that.

Thanks! I will check that out. I may just get by with the iPhone for a while.

Ken Nadvornick · Apr 4, 2015

The L-398 feels like a retro-throwback small lump of lead in one's hand, if that's the tipping point usability criterion. But although wonderful in mainstream light, it's also not the best low-light meter.

Ken

MartinCrabtree · Apr 4, 2015

LMNOP said:
I'm using cameras with no built in meter..

well that answers that.

LMNOP · Apr 4, 2015

Bill Burk said:
Well, sorry you were disappointed. The hollow plastic feel is nothing to be concerned about, they use printed circuits so mostly its bulk is there just to give a shape to hold in your hand. It's as functional as if they had heavy magnets of older meters.

I had a conversation with StoneNYC about these iPhone apps, he trusts them and doesn't feel it's necessary to get more involved than that. He also recommended a Reciprocity Failure app. If you are doing a lot of low light work, you should look out for that.

I started looking into other Reciprocity timers and my mind is fried... This entire concept has never been explained to me. Does anyone know of a good dummy's guide to how this works? I shoot portra 400 for the most part, and I would like to get a better relationship with shooting long exposures and timing them. Last night, my iPhone was giving me 3 second exposures at f16 - I opened up the shutter for a good 4 seconds, my hope is to be able to eyeball this stuff at some point.

MattKing · Apr 4, 2015

LMNOP said:
I started looking into other Reciprocity timers and my mind is fried... This entire concept has never been explained to me. Does anyone know of a good dummy's guide to how this works? I shoot portra 400 for the most part, and I would like to get a better relationship with shooting long exposures and timing them. Last night, my iPhone was giving me 3 second exposures at f16 - I opened up the shutter for a good 4 seconds, my hope is to be able to eyeball this stuff at some point.

Okay, I'll try.

When you expose film in "normal" circumstances, there is a reciprocal relationship between the intensity of the light reaching the film (determined by the ambient light intensity, and the aperture set on the lens) and the length of the exposure (shutter speed).

If the aperture is adjusted by one stop, you can get the same result by changing the length of the exposure by the reciprocal of one stop.

Same for adjustments of two, three, four or more stops.

In other words, reciprocity of light intensity and exposure is maintained.

However, if you start working outside of the "normal" range, the reciprocity starts to fail.

What constitutes the "normal" range will vary a bit between films.

When the light is so dim that the necessary reciprocal exposure time is very long - lets use two minutes as an example - the film responds less than when you are working within the normal range, so you need to add more light to the film to get the same result. You can do that by either changing (increasing) the ambient light, changing the aperture, or by increasing the exposure time even more. The guides to how much you need to increase the exposure time are a bit imprecise, because this varies with light conditions (contrasty vs not), subject brightness range and film type. Basically, you use the guides, you bracket, and you apply experience as you acquire it.

Just to be clear, although we tend to think of reciprocity failure as being linked to longer exposures, it is actually caused by the low level of light that necessitates those long exposures.

You may also encounter reciprocity failure with extremely short exposures (usually when using electronic flash at the boundaries of their appropriate operation) but I wouldn't worry about that for now.

Bill Burk · Apr 4, 2015

MattKing gave a wonderful explanation...

If you get a chance, take a look at the work of Michael Kenna - tell yourself after seeing a few shots that you would love to have some of that night-time photography look.

Then follow his chart. I'll see if I can get a link to it.

A "Reciprocity Failure" app would put the chart into a little app that tells you the same thing.

Bill Burk · Apr 4, 2015

See Post #23 of this thread.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Better yet, read the whole thread when you get a chance.

Investing in a Sekonic

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