Investing in a Sekonic

LMNOP · Apr 1, 2015

I just discovered this section of APUG and I'm happy to have found it!

I shoot film, exclusively, like most on here. For the past year, I have used my iPhone as a light meter, and I know there have been threads on this subject, pros and cons, yes. Generally I find it to work for me, though I have had some bad exposures here and there, it tends to work. You have to understand the iPhone's camera pretty well, and how to trick it into giving you the best of all lighting. What I like about it is that I can see the whole picture in the screen, and roughly what the exposure will look like. Not only that, but the Light Meter app syncs with DropBox, and you can log all of your exposures with an image preview, date, time, location, and memo. It is absolutely A DREAM! I can look through my DropBox while awaiting film to be developed, or review my day's work, or even months ago.

My question is: would a Sekonic really be worth the money? I am specifically looking at the L-308S - for $200, I sure hope it dramatically improves my ability to accurately expose film. If not, why should I sacrifice the DropBox logging feature, and carry an extra device, in addition to my always-handy phone? Is it really THAT much more effective, having a Sekonic? I want to believe YES, but part of me thinks it will be such an entirely different experience, with no live preview, that I will have to learn all over again, and perhaps waste film in the process.

Thoughts? Anyone use the apps and a Sekonic?

Thanks!

MattKing · Apr 1, 2015

You need to understand where I am coming from ......

I recommend a good hand meter, but I've used hand meters for decades.

The Sekonik 308S offers a couple of things that an Iphone probably cannot give you.

It offers a flash meter function.

And it offers an incident meter function.

I use incident metering a lot.

And flash metering makes possible what only a polaroid back used to make possible.

The Iphone (and Android) based meters seem to be a great backup.

But for me, the purpose built photographic meters tend to be more intuitive in use.

And with respect to the 308S, as I understand it, it will function for a very long time on a single AA battery. And that is very attractive.

Bill Burk · Apr 1, 2015

If $200 is a price you have to think twice before dropping...

Then ask if you are planning to meter flash.

TwinMate L-208 is a lighter, simpler meter for less money.

munz6869 · Apr 1, 2015

These days, unless I do something idiotic (which I often do), My Sekonic (spot meter L758DR) gives me a perfect exposure every single time. This is invaluable doing commercial stuff, but no less satisfying doing my own thing. I use other meters (a Gossen Luna Pro F, and a Metered Light Pocket Spot - both great!), but the Sekonic is a nice combination of easy/accurate/precise. I've used my phone when I've forgotten a meter, and they're great, but if you can wield a light meter, you'll get very reliable and consistent results...

Marc!

Ken Nadvornick · Apr 1, 2015

Why not rent a handheld light meter for a test drive, if you can't find one to borrow from a friend?

You may not find an L-308S in a professional rental environment, but if not you will find other handheld meters. Probably including higher-end Sekonics. It doesn't usually cost much for a single day rental. Sometimes even less during a weekday.

Give it a go and see if the process of using a handheld works for you.

I know it does for me because I would never make phone calls or surf the web on my Sekonic L-398 Studio Deluxe. Or my Konica-Minolta Auto Meter VF.

Ken

Bill Burk · Apr 1, 2015

Ken Nadvornick said:
I know it does for me because I would never make phone calls or surf the web on my Sekonic L-398 Studio Deluxe.

Awesome meter.

It's so nice to push a button, read an f/stop and shoot.

snapguy · Apr 1, 2015

maybe

Maybe I should develop my film in a public library so I can re-read "War and Peace" while I develop my negs. You make it sound like you have a travel trailer that follows you around filled with all sorts of goodies that haven't much to do with checking the light and then shooting the photo. I like to travel light. I don't need to write down every exposure any more than I need to take selfies with hungry bears behind me. I believe in the lean-and-mean approach. But that might not work for you. Frankly, after a half century I don't really have much use for a light meter. I can pretty much figure out the exposure by eyeballing the scene. But you need to do what works for you.

LMNOP · Apr 1, 2015

I DO like the idea of a dedicated instrument for measuring light. I guess my curiosity was how much better will this make my accuracy? It sounds like a pretty significant difference. While I don't plan on measuring flash at the moment, it would be a good thing to have going forward. Though I cannot yet imagine how I will meter landscapes, I have to get a hands on experience with it.

LMNOP · Apr 1, 2015

snapguy said:
Maybe I should develop my film in a public library so I can re-read "War and Peace" while I develop my negs. You make it sound like you have a travel trailer that follows you around filled with all sorts of goodies that haven't much to do with checking the light and then shooting the photo. I like to travel light. I don't need to write down every exposure any more than I need to take selfies with hungry bears behind me. I believe in the lean-and-mean approach. But that might not work for you. Frankly, after a half century I don't really have much use for a light meter. I can pretty much figure out the exposure by eyeballing the scene. But you need to do what works for you.

This is a strange interpretation of what I said, maybe coming from a high tower of wisdom or some anti-technology syndrome. I travel with a shoulder bag, camera, one lens, one back, very light. I am a minimalist through and through, in every aspect of my life, especially when I go out shooting. These 'goodies' you speak of do not fall into my budget. My gear has been scraped together with eBay and savvy used buys, and buying this additional accessory that every serious photographer seems to use has been put off for years. I happen to carry a phone with me everywhere I go, you know, like most living/breathing humans, and that happens to serve nicely as a light meter for the time being. There is a little "Log" option on this meter, and it will kick a lot of useful data to my dropbox at no cost, added time, or hassle. I rarely check this, but when I need color matching, or a reminder of how I exposed that day, what maybe went wrong, it is a useful resource. I am surprised that such a simple concept could spark the image of me with a trailer of gear, or even raises the term "selfie" as if some child raised this topic.

Nonetheless, I appreciate the input, as always. I love to learn from others!

Ken Nadvornick · Apr 1, 2015

Bill Burk said:
Awesome meter.

It's so nice to push a button, read an f/stop and shoot.

It's not one of the new ones. I bought it 30+ years ago as a starving student.

Against the KM it's about one-third of a stop off (low) in bright light, but eerily dead-on at the bottom of it's design range in dim light where these models are usually fairly constrained. I think it's a bit of an individual anomaly in that regard.

That guy and I have been through a lot together. I only purchased the KM more recently because I needed a flash meter in a reliable but basic instrument. And because the KM VF offers shutter speed resolutions of one-third of a stop instead of only full stops like the earlier IVF model. Makes using it with my Graphex and Compur-Press shutters very straightforward.

Konica-Minolta VF meters survive today as identical Kenko KFM-1100 models, still currently available. Even the accessories are interchangeable. They're quite good in my experience.

Ken

LMNOP · Apr 1, 2015

APUGuser19 said:
I've had an L308S for years, and it's basically not too bad. As a flash meter I found it OK with monolights, but cannot meter for automatic flash or shorter flash durations than full power. As soon as the flash starts getting some speed, as in half or quarter or more power, the meter acts as if it were going blind. Further, mine also does not have any low-light sensitivity below EV1 or so, and will simply give an error when the light gets that low. That doesn't make sense to me, as my Nikon F2S, my Luna-Pro, and my SBC are all much older and can meter way below where the 308 has stopped. This is not to say any meter doesn't loose some serious accuracy when light gets low like that. But the 308 just cuts slap off. I wouldn't pay any $200 for one. I only paid a hundred new maybe in 2007 or 08 or so.

This is great feedback. I have to consider low light scenes, I do a good deal long exposure but I have found that metering will get you half way to a good low light exposure.

I don't have experience with flash, or strobe lighting, so this is pretty basic use, as I said above, Im kind of a bare bones shooter, mostly outdoors. I'll keep looking around at these other models mentioned.

Bill Burk · Apr 1, 2015

Ken Nadvornick said:
It's not one of the new ones. I bought it 30+ years ago as a starving student.

Against the KM it's about one-third of a stop off (low) in bright light, but eerily dead-on at the bottom of it's design range in dim light where these models are usually fairly constrained. I think it's a bit of an individual anomaly in that regard.

That guy and I have been through a lot together. I only purchased the KM more recently because I needed a flash meter in a reliable but basic instrument. And because the KM VF offers shutter speed resolutions of one-third of a stop instead of only full stops like the earlier IVF model. Makes using it with my Graphex and Compur-Press shutters very straightforward.

Konica-Minolta VF meters survive today as identical Kenko KFM-1100 models, still currently available. Even the accessories are interchangeable. They're quite good in my experience.

Ken

You don't have the set of slides? You're missing out. Each slide comes with an ASA and tells you the shutter speed. Then the needle reads out the f/stop.

Ken Nadvornick · Apr 1, 2015

Bill Burk said:
You don't have the set of slides? You're missing out. Each slide comes with an ASA and tells you the shutter speed. Then the needle reads out the f/stop.

I knew about them. But it was all I could do to afford the meter itself while attending USC, even with a generous discount from Ed, the photo store owner where I was a darkroom printer at the time. I just never thought to pick up a set in all these later years.

I like that meter so much I've considered getting one of the new models just to assure I have a good one when retirement comes. If I do I won't be passing those slides by a second time.

Ken

Prest_400 · Apr 1, 2015

I have an iPhone 6 and a Minolta IIIF. Thing is that I haven't taken them out to the field much and tended to use sunny 16 lately. I should get my arse moving, as I'm quite lazy for metering. I'm getting myself to carry the Fuji GW in a bag, so it fits also a few accessories. The phone I wouldn't count as an acessory as it is always in the pocket, shooting or not.

A standalone meter is nice. Much more direct and practical. Press button, and have incident reading. That is a feature you don't get with the phone: Incident readings. I also thought about getting that sekonic but it was a bit out of my range, and a Minolta IIIF popped up at a nice price so I got that one instead (I like the digital readout modern meters).

My meter has a ND dome (+3EV) which I dislike but haven't found the normal dome replacement for a nice price (Kenko substitute is there but $40 for a dome is nono, I prefer to add EV compensation). There's Luxi which is a dome for the front camera and it seems a nice idea for transforming the phone to an incident reading machine, that clocks at around $30. It's a propack of film almost, and I should buy some!
Still, the iPhone 6 has a nice partial to spot reading. But I find it a bit fiddly (and I'm 20, used to the tech). The Minolta is as big as 3 iPhones stacked; but with a nice pocket in the bag it won't be a nuisance plus you can put a lanyard so it goes around the neck if needed.

Later this month I will have a day of walking around the city and will perhaps try both:
Minolta for Incident and iPhone (+ gray card) for reflective. The iPhone is a nice digital sidekick for those snapshots (it's always commisioned for that). But I doubt a single charge can hold relatively intensive shooting and metering functions.

gliderbee · Apr 1, 2015

I have several apps in Android that do both reflective and incident metering.

Stefan

Rick A · Apr 1, 2015

How I miss my Sekonic L-398. I had it for 30+ years and depended on it for nearly everything. Unfortunately, it was clipped to my Mamiya 6, and was stolen last summer. I haven't replaced it yet, I have a Minolta Auto Meter IIIF and Soligor Spot Sensor(zone system modified), but they aren't as handy as the Sekonic plus the Minolta uses expensive batteries(that die unexpectedly, ugh).

Terry Christian · Apr 1, 2015

I find that my iPhone meter app works great for general outdoor shooting and is convenient for that. I use my Sekonic for flash metering and for incident metering in the studio.

LMNOP · Apr 1, 2015

Rick A said:
How I miss my Sekonic L-398. I had it for 30+ years and depended on it for nearly everything. Unfortunately, it was clipped to my Mamiya 6, and was stolen last summer. I haven't replaced it yet, I have a Minolta Auto Meter IIIF and Soligor Spot Sensor(zone system modified), but they aren't as handy as the Sekonic plus the Minolta uses expensive batteries(that die unexpectedly, ugh).

What do you think about the L-398 redesign vs. the L-308s?

Seems like the 398 is analog, and $20 more expensive, not sure why.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/435535-REG/Sekonic_401_399_L_398A_Studio_Deluxe_III.html

MattKrull · Apr 1, 2015

I have a Minolta III flashmeter. I love it. I have a light meter app on my phone, which works well, and I have a Sekonic L-28. The phone app almost never gets used anymore, and the L-28 only gets used when bag space is a consideration.

If I'm shooting flash, which I do often, the flash meter is worth its weight in gold. Even when shooting digital (so I can dial in shots), the flash meter is worth it, because I can get everything setup near perfect before ever pulling out the camera. i'm at the point where, aside from reflections in glasses, I am comfortable shooting multi-flash setups without test shots.

I've only used a Sekonica flash meter once, and I was really confused by the interface. The owner didn't understand it, so we gave up on it and dialed our lighting with digital cameras. The minolta on the other hand, had a dead simple interface that takes no explaination and cost me $60.

If the Sekonic is too rich for your blood, I highly suggest searching out a Minolta Flashmeter III.

Rick A · Apr 1, 2015

I absolutely adore the L-398 because it is analog. I used mine for so long it was second mature. I suppose that's the prime directive for any gear we own, use should become second nature, part of the natural flow of life. If you have to stop and think about what you are doing, you don't do it enough. Every watch I own is analog. I owned a digital watch once(when first on market) and couldn't tell time with it. That's not saying I didn't know what time it was, but seeing both directions in the face made life easier for me, same with the L-398. I feel the same way about the Minolta digital meter, too much effort toconvert settings at a glance. My spot meter is analog, but a pain for me to use, because I don't use it enough(and not everything requires spot metering).

jose angel · Apr 1, 2015

Time ago I downloaded a couple apps for light metering, used it two times and returned to my hand meters. Maybe I`m too rude, but nothing like a good hand held meter. BTW, I rarely use a meter with center weighted and matrix metering reflex cameras.

In my opinion, it is worth it to buy either
1. A very lightweight meter, L208/Digisix type, or
2. A full featured meter, with flash and spot metering.

Since Sekonic released their all-in-one first model (I think it was the L508?), I have sold or retired all my previous stuff. Any Sekonic from the L608 on are worth every penny. They are a bit on the big side, so it was my reason to buy a much smaller basic one, specially to be used with my Leica or Mamiya RFs.

If I had to carry with something which is not the smallest one (say the L208 or a Digisix), I then prefer to take a fully featured version.
I`d not buy a "medium" sized meter which is not at least flash+ambient.

I`d not mind so much if Sekonic, Gossen or Minolta... once you get used to the one you have, you`ll love it.

F5B&W · Apr 1, 2015

A Rolleicord I have doesn't have a light meter. I picked up a Seikonic Twinmate so I could travel light, not have to lug a Nikon or Pentax 35mm in order to meter the shots. The Seikonic disappeared for a while. Thinking I had lost it, I replaced it with a Gossen Digisix 2. The day the Gossen arrived, my gadget bag vomited up the missing Seikonic. One can do what the other can't-meter a multiple strobe shot before I expose anything. The Seikonic is easier to read, though. I still like to travel light, and my back thanks me at the end of the day.

removedacct1 · Apr 1, 2015

Three months ago I was researching modern light meters and after much deliberation, I bought the Sekonic L-308s. I was considering acquiring an old Minolta Flash Meter III, which was my studio standard equipment in the 80s and 90s, but I decided to go for new rather than a 30 year old device just because it was what I was familiar with. (Nostalgia isn't always a useful tool for measuring worth) The Minolta also used a stack of "watch batteries" that cost a small fortune to replace every time it needed a new set, whereas the Sekonic blissfully uses a single AA battery.

Up to the point of buying the L-308s I had used a couple of iPhone meter apps and found most of them adequate, but not great.* They got the job done and they were convenient. However, they were not always accurate under all conditions and you had to learn how to extrapolate from what it tells you, based on where you are aiming it, etc. Once I had a proper meter in my hand, precision and accuracy were once again part of my metering toolkit. Where the iPhone meters might get you close enough for a reasonable exposure most of the time, a dedicated meter will give you precise readings 100% of the time and show you how to better your understanding of light and how to measure it right, to do what you want.

My only criticism of the Sekonic L-308s is that the case gives the impression that it's a fairly fragile device - lets just say that I am careful with it in daily use and wouldn't want to be dropping it in the sidewalk or banging it hard against a brick wall. IE: keep it in its faux leather holster when not in use. Otherwise, it's a precision tool that's proven it's worth.

*One exception to my "good but not great" statement would be the spectacularly good Pinhole Assist metering app for the iPhone. It allows metering for absurdly small apertures, calculates reciprocity for a variety of film and paper types, and does it all without breaking a sweat. Highly recommended for pinhole camera work!

Rick A · Apr 1, 2015

I would happily swap my Minolta Auto Meter IIIF (which does flash metering) for a Sekonic L-398.

mr rusty · Apr 1, 2015

Up to the point of buying the L-308s I had used a couple of iPhone meter apps and found most of them adequate, but not great.* They got the job done and they were convenient. However, they were not always accurate under all conditions and you had to learn how to extrapolate from what it tells you, based on where you are aiming it, etc. Once I had a proper meter in my hand, precision and accuracy were once again part of my metering toolkit. Where the iPhone meters might get you close enough for a reasonable exposure most of the time, a dedicated meter will give you precise readings 100% of the time and show you how to better your understanding of light and how to measure it right, to do what you want.

My only criticism of the Sekonic L-308s is that the case gives the impression that it's a fairly fragile device - lets just say that I am careful with it in daily use and wouldn't want to be dropping it in the sidewalk or banging it hard against a brick wall. IE: keep it in its faux leather holster when not in use. Otherwise, it's a precision tool that's proven it's worth.

+1 I too have a 308S

Investing in a Sekonic

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