intrigued by medium format

jono1515 · Jul 30, 2007

I've been thinking about trying out medium format for a while now. I don't have any real justification for it, it just seems like another fascinating aspect of photography to try out. I really enjoy using cameras that allow me full control when I want it and aperture priority the rest of the time, and one of the reasons I think I've shied away from medium format so far is the cost.

There have been many times when I was so close to buying a cheap holga or diana but decided it wasn't worth the $30 to buy a camera I had such limited control over. I don't want to allow myself too large of a budget here, I spend more than enough on all my 35mm equipment as it stands.

I'm not very good at taking care of my cameras. I like to have them with me all the time, even if I only find one picture I want to take at the beach when I'll be there for two days camping. I've lost as many cameras as I've broken over the past year. But I still find myself justifying trying out medium format.

I develop my own b&w so I'm not terribly concerned about the cost of film/developing. I don't print my own pictures so I guess unless I found a more professional place I'd have to be content with scanning my film on a flat bed scanner.

So, I guess I'm just wondering what anyone thinks... should I buy a cheap medium format camera with limited controls and decide if I enjoy the format? Or, should I buy an older TLR camera that's more substantial like a yashica mat or similar.... or, should I just forget it? what am I going to gain with medium format? I know image quality is better, better resolution... but do I need that? I'm not doing any sort of commercial photography. I take photos and show the prints to my friends and post them online for my far away family to see.

Any thoughts are welcome! Thanks!

David Brown · Jul 30, 2007

jono1515 said:
should I buy a cheap medium format camera with limited controls and decide if I enjoy the format? Or, should I buy an older TLR camera that's more substantial like a yashica mat or similar....

Relatively speaking, Yashicamats are not that expensive. There was one on Craigslist locally last week for $75 and I should have bought it! (Oh, well ...)

A Yashica D, LM or EM would be even less, and are essentially the same camera, as long as they have the Yashinon and not the Yashicor lens. You may get other opinions, but TLRs are a good way to "try" medium format, and since you mentioned the Yashicas, I'll recommend that. A good Minolta Autocord will serve the same purpose.

Good luck.

dpurdy · Jul 30, 2007

If you like what you get why change? Sounds to me like you should spend the money on film or a motel at the beach.
Dennis

DBP · Jul 30, 2007

If you want something sturdy, reliable, and cheap, I would suggest an old folder or a TLR. I'm not sure what models are available there, but I would go for something with red window advance and, if the folder route, guess-focus. You might even want to try a box camera.

waynecrider · Jul 30, 2007

If anything I would suggest a simple good but cheap TLR or folder as a starter, but even then your going to probably need a handheld meter, and it could very well cost you more then the camera. With your background tho you might loose or break both. Seriously, if you not going to approach the medium with the intent to want to produce larger and better photographs I'd shy away for now. You'll have plenty of time to sink money into MF. Maybe get a 120 Holga and play or an old Ansco folder for 10-20 bucks. Some of the Ansco's had some decent lenses.

erikg · Jul 30, 2007

I second the suggestion of a Yashicamat. I don't know your budget but I can't think of anything less expensive that still has a decent glass lens, good construction and a built in meter. I think they are a great intro to medium format. Plastic cameras are great in their own ways too, but a Holga or Diana represent a different look, and don't really share too much with MF besides the same film type. Lots of fun though.

DBP · Jul 30, 2007

If you are shooting outdoors most of the time the meter is pretty unnecessary. There were bunches of folders and TLRs made in the 30s, 40s and 50s that have pretty good lenses and are really cheap. In the US I would recommend a Ciroflex, or maybe one of the Kodak folders, which seem to hold up better than the ANSCOs. Lenses on the Kodaks range from very good to execrable, so there is plenty to choose from.

Peter Black · Jul 30, 2007

Since you're in that part of the world, you may be able to find a Seagull TLR and it should be even cheaper than a Yashicamat.

colivet · Jul 30, 2007

If you feel like exploring the pull the trigger. I am very happy with a Bronica 6x6. I am mostly a Large format shooter and these type of cameras are like a blend of view camera and a 35mm. The glass is 6x6 so you see exactly the size the negative and also you got the portability of small cameras.
It is one heck of a tool and all you need is $250 or thereabouts. No need to get Hasselblad.

brian steinberger · Jul 30, 2007

Peter Black said:
Since you're in that part of the world, you may be able to find a Seagull TLR and it should be even cheaper than a Yashicamat.

Agreed.

Also, check out used Bronica SQ-A with non-metered prism and an 80/2.8. If you buy the body, lens, and prism sperate, you should be able to piece this set together for around $250. That's cheap to me. I've did this when I started out in medium format. Ebay, and KEH.com are great places to start looking. Good luck! Medium format is awesome.

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Jul 30, 2007

Don't believe the anti-hype concerning Yashikor lenses on Yashica TLRs, they're every bit as capable as any quality triplet. I've enlarged the following picture to 11x11 and found no lack of details (you can see the individual screws in the wood holding the seat, if that matters for you) nor of nice tonalities:

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Here's another example:
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Of course it's not a Zeiss or a Schneider, but I am selling photos that I took with it.

jbbooks · Jul 30, 2007

dpurdy said:
If you like what you get why change? Sounds to me like you should spend the money on film or a motel at the beach.
Dennis

Sounds like good advice.

Cheryl Jacobs · Jul 30, 2007

At the risk of being tacky, I'm quoting myself. Just easier than writing it again.

- It's easier to focus on buying that next piece of equipment than it is to accept that you should be able to create great work with what you've got. Buying stuff is a convenient and expensive distraction. You need a decent camera, a decent lens, and a light meter. Until you can use those tools consistently and masterfully, don't spend another dime. Spend money on equipment ONLY when you've outgrown your current equipment and you're being limited by it. There are no magic bullets.

rjas · Jul 30, 2007

If you are asking us if you should get a camera, you probably don't need it, but if you want it, go ahead and buy it if it will give you some enjoyment. Don't put too much value in what format / kind of camera you shoot. I've always thought that as long as you and your equipment are capable you'll make great images wether you shoot 35mm or 4x5.

jono1515 · Jul 30, 2007

Thanks for all the responses, it's given me a lot to think about. Right now I think I'm going to follow Cheryl and Dennis' advice. Stick with the cameras I've got (as long as I have them and they work...) and get some more film to use over at the beach.
I really don't think I'm ready to spend $200 on more cameras right now. I did see a Kodak folder though on KEH for $16 and I might get it just to see what medium format is like. I think it will be enough for me right now.
Thanks for all the ideas!
Jon

elekm · Jul 30, 2007

If you lose, break or are otherwise careless with cameras, buy the cheapest one possible -- an old folder or maybe some box camera. That way, if something happens to it, you won't feel too badly that it's gone.

k_jupiter · Jul 31, 2007

jono1515 said:
Thanks for all the responses, it's given me a lot to think about. Right now I think I'm going to follow Cheryl and Dennis' advice. Stick with the cameras I've got (as long as I have them and they work...) and get some more film to use over at the beach.
I really don't think I'm ready to spend $200 on more cameras right now. I did see a Kodak folder though on KEH for $16 and I might get it just to see what medium format is like. I think it will be enough for me right now.
Thanks for all the ideas!
Jon

Right. But... get a cheap Zeiss folder. A Nettar. 6x6, you'll see if it's what you like while not giving up quality, and still staying in the sub 30 dollar budget. If you can't find one for under 30 bucks, write to me. Outdoors, exposure is a non-issue, focus is a guess, but what the hey.

Put a flash on it, it takes wonderful indoor portraits.

Have a great time.

tim in san jose

steven_e007 · Jul 31, 2007

I think it makes a big difference whether you process yourself or send away...

My intro to medium format was a plastic lubitel which I bought just for fun because it was so cheap (brand new, special offer, is cost about the same as three rolls of 120 film...).

It didn't improve my photography in any way, being much harder to use and having an inferior simple lens compared with my 35mm kit... But it was FUN!

I became hooked when I developed the negatives and saw how huge they seemed compared with 35mm. I have always struggled to visualise how a 35mm contact print will look when printed. Often sharpness problems aren't apparent until the image is enlarged. I've wasted a lot of time and paper with 35mm. I really prefer the big contacts from medium format because I can see what I've got and find it just so much easier to work from in the darkroom.

None of that has anything to do with how good a photographer I am, I'm an amateur doing this for fun - I just really prefer using bigger negatives and bigger cameras.

For home processing I definately recommend picking up a simple roll film folder or a very cheap TLR on eBay. Or ask around, I've been given quite a few for free. Try it and see what you think of the negatives.

For commercially processed colour images the situation is quite different. I rarely shoot colour in my medium format kit because it is so much harder and more expensive to get processed and the advantages are only apparent in larger prints. I leave that to the pros, although most of them have gone digital

Steve

mabman · Jul 31, 2007

My intro to medium format was the venerable Holga I just wanted to see if I liked the size and perspective - it was the cheapest way to do that.

Last year I picked up a refurbed Agfa Isolette III folder from Jurgen Kreckel (www.certo6.com) - great condition, cost just over US$200. You can get them cheaper, but you take your chances with leaky bellows, fogged/fungusy lenses, etc.

A somewhat cheaper option, and potentially easier to adjust to if you're used to SLRs, would be a Pentacon 6 or a more plentiful Soviet clone like the Kiev 6c or the Kiev 60. Many usually available on eBay (of course, with anything Soviet, quality control might be an issue).

I think it's worth pursuing, if nothing else (assuming you're considering 6x6) framing a square picture is different than the usual rectangle that you get from 35mm, and thus makes you "think different", which is always a good thing.

steven_e007 · Jul 31, 2007

mabman said:
A somewhat cheaper option, and potentially easier to adjust to if you're used to SLRs, would be a Pentacon 6 or a more plentiful Soviet clone like the Kiev 6c or the Kiev 60. Many usually available on eBay (of course, with anything Soviet, quality control might be an issue).

QUOTE]

I had a Kiev 60 from new. It was a bl**dy awful camera!!!!

It never worked right from new, really terrible shutter - kept giving inconsistent and uneven exposures. I think it was replaced under guarentee and the replacement was just as bad. I replaced it with a 2nd hand East German Pentecon 6, which was much better. It is a very nice camera to use, but I tend to nurse it and only wheel it out for special occassions. I have some excellent lenses for it but if it ever breaks down then it wouldn't be cost effective to fix... I'd stick to a cheap and cheerful TLR, personally!

Steve

mabman · Jul 31, 2007

Well, if I wanted to go that route personally I'd probably go with one from www.araxphoto.com - essentially he takes new Kiev 60s and has Arsenal techs overhaul them, flock the interiors, and add mirror lockup (I believe the incentive is he pays in hard currency, or at least pretty well, and in the reading I've done he has a good reputation). However, not as cheap, hence the "buy one on eBay to start"

Kobin · Jul 31, 2007

jono1515 said:
I did see a Kodak folder though on KEH for $16 and I might get it just to see what medium format is like. I think it will be enough for me right now.
Thanks for all the ideas!
Jon

Watch out regarding film format. Kodak changed formats quite a bit, many of their folders only accept obsolete film or 620. Sometimes 120 works in these cameras, sometimes not.

A view-finder 6x6 Zeiss Nettar (516/17, I think they are) with a nice Prontor shutter and F6.something Novar lens is about $30 on the auction sight for the patient buyer. Sunny Sixteen and zone focusing, and marvelous square images.

K.

elekm · Jul 31, 2007

Kodak largely abandoned the 120 format in the early 1930s after introducing 620 film. With few exceptions, it made no 120 cameras, and the camera industry largely rejected the 620 format with only a handful of camera makers catering to that format.

You can use 620 film in 120 cameras without a problem. The reverse isn't always true, because the diameter of the spool ends are smaller on 620.

Most of us simply respool.

k_jupiter · Aug 1, 2007

elekm said:
Kodak largely abandoned the 120 format in the early 1930s after introducing 620 film. With few exceptions, it made no 120 cameras, and the camera industry largely rejected the 620 format with only a handful of camera makers catering to that format.

You can use 620 film in 120 cameras without a problem. The reverse isn't always true, because the diameter of the spool ends are smaller on 620.

Most of us simply respool.

Most of us think there are enough 120 cameras out there of such fine quality, that trying to use even a professional level 620 camera (of which there were few), isn't worth the time or trouble. But.. elekm, the more power to you. People laugh when they find out I have more 3.25x4.25 cameras than any other type (except for 120 cameras). No rational reason.

BTW - If someone gave me a Medalist II, I would figure out how to shoot it, at least for awhile. But sadly, even my beautiful Yashica 44 sits idle for lack of affordable 127 film and the presence of wonderful 120 TLRs.

tim in san jose

jono1515 · Aug 1, 2007

ok, i was just looking on ebay again... and just bought an old tlr. it was cheap, $35 including shipping. anyone know anything about Toyocaflex? Seller says its Japanese tlr fashioned after a Rolleicord from the 50's. Aperture 3.5-22; shutter speeds B-300. A bit of stickiness at 1,2,5,10 and fine at B, 25, 50, 100, 300. I think it was worth the gamble. And at least I don't have to torture myself with trying to decide whether or not I should try the format out. I won't actually have the camera for awhile unfortunately. I'm in Taiwan right now, and don't want to pay shipping all the way here. My parents are coming to visit in 3 weeks and I'll have them bring it with them.
Thanks to everyone for all your feedback and ideas on different ways to jump into medium format!

intrigued by medium format

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