Intermediate large format questions/photography misadventures

[Sirius Glass]

@Sirius Glass I think I'm 10 years plus behind the curve on finding free to nearly free Jobo processing units on the used market. If I happen to trip over one, I'll definitely consider it, but it's another item that would end up sitting around mothballed until I can dedicate a space for it. I like the ridiculous number of variables one is afforded by processing 1 sheet at a time while the counterpoint is that one is processing only 1 sheet at a time.

@DREW WILEY I was thinking of simply buying a Pelican or some such divider kit for now and adding some padding to the old Kelty I have. The bubble wrap idea is cheap and easy. I found a true vintage made in CA Kelty external frame locally, but the frame size was small.

Didn't Calumet or somebody offer an overgrown lens wrap at one point? I,e; a camera wrap?

@outwest Noted. I'm anxiously awaiting my Wollensak lens. I seem to have landed on an ebay seller whose shipping is not exactly timely. I can't fault them for that though as my biggest failing selling on ebay over the years has been prompt shipping. I once did a full work week with someone's fully packaged item riding around in my backseat. (They got a full shipping refund, but I still felt bad about it). There are all kinds of ways I could have avoided that situation, but I like to personally place items in the box or on the conveyor belt.

I know based upon other threads that some of you have classic cars and other hobbies in addition to that of photography. For those of you still engaged in a career, have you let other interests and hobbies get sloughed off in favor of photography? I derive zero income from photography, and I don't expect that to change anytime soon if ever. I'm really trying to decide where to concentrate my efforts.
When I actually get out shooting, that's a pretty welcome mental state for me. I'm not in a position to quit working anytime soon, so keeping most of my woodworking stuff is a given.
My Land Cruiser led down the road of welding, and some specialty automotive tools that I would otherwise not own. It also gets relatively horrible gas milage. There are a great many more suitable vehicles I could choose for what I use it for, but I enjoy driving it, and I have some blood, sweat and tears into it as they say. I'm not asking for anyone's opinion on whether to sell my personal vehicle, but simply any similar mental crossroads reached and which direction you chose.

I do not make money from photography. I fully subsidize my photographic endeavors.

 

[MTGseattle]

I hope that didn't read like I was putting anyone down for making money with photography. If anyone on this whole Photrio site makes money from photography that's a win in my book. The fact that I don't just circles my subconscious during some of my g.a.s moments. I haven't seen a local functioning Jobo unit for less than $1500 in a couple of years, so they've simply not been on my radar.

Someone did list a Hasselblad 903swc complete for $1500 last month. I'm very curious if they actually let it go so cheaply. The pictures had it looking really good.

 

[MTGseattle]

Ok:
bag situation solved for the interim. My niche car interest came through, and I sourced that older Lowepro 600AW from a fellow Land Cruiser nerd who wasn't using his anymore. It's kind of like a Pelican 1550 with shoulder straps added but will suffice for the time being. Camera, dark cloth, light meter, 3 lenses, 3 film holders and some misc weighs in at 32 pounds.

I finally got out yesterday. lesson learned is ALWAYS double/triple check your gear. I forgot a battery for my light meter, I forgot readers/loupe, and I didn't actually test my tripod head situation at the house. I still valiantly exposed 3 8x10 frames though so we shall see what the film has to say.

I also brought out the speed graphic with 6x12 back and subsequently found out that the rangefinder is out of whack. Again, the film will tell the tale.

other thoughts; I may not keep the Gitzo 1570. I have one other "hack" I will try before I switch gears completely. I need to buy or make a proper dark cloth. The one I brought out yesterday lets some light through, and the small, light 8x10 lenses need proper dark for my weak eyes to focus. Yesterday's lenses were the little Wollensak Anastigmat wide 159mm f9.5 and the Fujinon C 300mm f8.5

Also, unless I completely overlooked a knob or lever, it seems way too easy to focus the rear standard on the Osaka(Tachihara) asymmetrically.

I really need to commit some equivalent focal lengths to memory. I can already see the strong need for something of at least 450mm. The Nikkor Q or M or the more desirable (to me at least) Fujinon C 450. I'll likely be unloading some gear to fund that endeavor.
More to follow.

 

[MTGseattle]

I decided I had better process at least one sheet before potentially carrying the exact same mistakes out into the field again. First 8x10 sheet has an image on it(Yay!) and is in the drying cabinet.

 

[MTGseattle]

I'm not sure I will keep the Gitzo 1570M head. The low-profile nature and the long levers had at least 1 lever in my way the whole time I was shooting last weekend. This was exacerbated by the fact that I completely forgot how rear tilt worked on my camera. I am rusty when it comes to traditional field camera work for sure.
I wanted some sort of quick release action that I could use with multiple cameras, so I bought a Manfrotto(577) unit that was big enough to be attached to the 1570 with 2 screws, and a plate long enough for 2 screws into the camera base plate. It's pretty solid. A leveling plate or some other accessory that raises the head a bit further off of the tripod base plate may help with the lever interference too.

I need to iron out some basic workflow items. I'll take advice from anyone shooting sheet film for this. Should I start down the road of having my film holders be dedicated to one type of film all of the time with some type of labeling system, or is that taking things a step too far?

I've been happy with the Stearman Press sp810 so far. the drawback being 1 sheet at a time, and completely dry in between uses. It creates a long day of processing. I'm pretending the big Jobo expert drum doesn't exist for now due to the price of those things.

I'm on the lookout for BTZS 8x10 tubes. If anyone has some that have been sitting for years, let me know please.

I'm also on the lookout for a Tachihara 8x10 to 4x5 reduction back so I can shoot some color. When I add shipping and lab fees to the film cost, I think Portra 160 in 8x10 will cost me $40-50 per sheet. I'm not heading down that road any time soon.

 

[ic-racer]

This is the Fujinon of the early "W" series that covers 8x10 at infinity. Why 90mm on 4x5 format is so popular with lens manufacturers, yet 180 got passed by for 8x10 by all the big names.

 

[Tom Taylor]

I've been happy with the Stearman Press sp810 so far. the drawback being 1 sheet at a time, and completely dry in between uses. It creates a long day of processing. I'm pretending the big Jobo expert drum doesn't exist for now due to the price of those things.

You can process 2 sheets of 8x10 at a time (or 1 sheet) with the Jobo 2830 tank using print clips to keep the sheets separated. Simply slide the clips onto the raised ridges a couple of inches from the top and slide the sheets in. the clips keep the film firmly in place and the series of raised ridges around the inner circumference allows for chemistry to reach the back side of the film.

Thomas

 

[MTGseattle]

Thanks for that Tom. I'm torn though, as tailoring specific development to each sheet is part and parcel of large format work. I could see things getting messed up trying to extract sheets from a mod54 4x5 reel at different times during development for example. Scale that up to 8x10 and I think I'm talking myself into sticking with 1 sheet at a time for now. I do like the miserly chemistry usage the BTZS tubes offer.

 

[DREW WILEY]

I segregate sheets intended for normal development from those needing either extended and reduced development, and do them per batch in trays, shuffle-method. With proper technique and some practice, perfectly even development is routinely possible. It's way more time and developer volume effective than using drums. I develop color prints in drums, so am very familiar with that technique too.

 

[_T_]

I numbered my holders with a hand powered label maker. The label tape is the exact size of the label area on the holders. The characters on the label are raised and so I devised a sort of makeshift braille system so that I can tell in the dark which holder and side I’m loading or unloading. I keep a page in my log book for each sheet of film i load and the number of the holder it’s in, then I fill out the exposure information, camera settings, description of the scene and intended development when I shoot each frame. I reference these notes when I’m getting ready to develop.

My only problem with this is that I have no way of marking the negative itself with the number of the holder it was in so once they come out of development it can be tricky to match similar frames up to the logbook, but I’m loath to do something like cut notches into the holders for reference. I don’t like making permanent modifications to my gear, hence the label maker rather than simply using a sharpie or whatever.

Keeping an accurate log of all the information pertaining to the shot makes it very easy to keep from making the same mistake twice, whether it be with exposure or development. You can reference it to figure out exactly where you went wrong when you notice a problem in one of your shots and also how to correct it.

Previously to using this system I had bought a pack of circular different colored adhesive labels and I assigned each label a type of development, i.e. yellow is normal development, red is - development, green is + development, two greens for ++ or whatever colors you happen to end up with. Just stick the labels on the holder when you finish metering and they peel right off after you develop each sheet.

Works pretty good to make sure you develop each sheet as intended but if you end up with a problematic sheet after processing you’re going to be guessing what went wrong. That’s why I switched to detailed logs.

 

[MTGseattle]

Note taking for sure. Otherwise, someone may as well devise a mod54 style 8x10 holder so I can cook 6 sheets at a time for the same time since not taking notes leaves me guessing as to appropriate cooking times.
I could always take a phone snap of the scene and add a caption to that. many ways to accomplish what I need.
I scored a Fujinon C 450mm. I am placing a hold on personal gear acquisition for a while. Film is allowed, but no more cameras/lenses for a while.
I've always liked the look of the "old-school" label tape with the raised lettering. They crop up a lot at the thrift stores.

 

[MTGseattle]

And, in the random file we have this:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/63497-REG/Wista_214537_8x10_to_4x5_Reducing.html?msclkid=4fa49ca0b7c41087e389f83175fa9f19

Seriously? I see my next diy project taking shape.

 

[Vaughn]

Don't forget you can put two 4x10s on a sheet of 8x10!

 

[MTGseattle]

Thanks Vaughn. The price of color 8x10 still has me freaking out a bit. color 4x5 seems a bit more tolerable.

 

[MTGseattle]

Lets shift this towards filters for a bit. I'm mainly talking basics that will add contrast for black and white work,

The Mamiya 6/6mf lenses are 58 and 67mm respectively. 2 of my Canon EF lenses are 67mm. My Fujinon "C" large format lenses are 52mm.
My Wollensak 159mm has no filter threads (I thought I had that dealt with, but I missed by 1 or 2mm).
I own a Lee 100 filter holder and a few adapters. I also have a few filters in both 58 and 67.
My first thought was to simply step-up and use 67mm for everything. I don't like the 52-67 step-up though. 52-58 is ok though. (I'm thinking storage here mainly).

It looks like Cokin makes a 100mm square b&w contrast kit in their Z-pro line (yellow, orange, red and green). They are constructed of optic resin.



My thought is to try out the Cokin kit and stick with the Lee stuff (I have the various adapter rings that I need already). If I find the filter factor and/or the contrast changes not to my liking with the Cokin kit, I could sub in/out screw-in filters as needed.

I'm mainly talking about large format work here, so the little bit of extra time needed to use the Lee system is a non-issue in the grand scheme of overall set-up to expose an image.

Any thoughts from those of you who have been doing this a lot longer than me? I don't want to fall into the filters or no filters debate, just ideas about what has worked or not worked for some of you.

 

[abruzzi]

On 4x5 I usually use my Cokin P system, with the "B&W Kit" and have been happy. The P system is 84mm filters, not 100 like the Lee or Cokin Z. there are lots of alternate options available in the 100mm size, but the Cokin kit is the cheapest starting point.

 

[MTGseattle]

I got my first group of Lee 100 system stuff used. Had I not found them, I was looking at the various options for smaller filters.
Another user just started a "filters across different lens systems" thread as well. like most things it matters whether one is starting from scratch or filling in some gaps. I have a couple of lee 100 system rings in sizes I will likely never use. I guess I could try and trade those out or sell them. I have the 3 most important(for me personally) sizes; 52,58 and 67.
In the other thread a few people mentioned not liking to hang huge filters off of smaller lenses and I somewhat agree with that. I think 49mm up to 77mm was mentioned.
Still, the strangest thing is trying to adapt filters to oolder lenses that have no thread in the barrel. I've now handled the Linhof tension mount holder (which has its own dedicated filters), and a Kodak 2" slip-on to bay Vii adapter.
Maybe there are too many options?

 

[Axelwik]

I didn't read everyone's responses, but in terms of shift on a camera without it, if the camera has both front and rear swing it can still be shifted - think about it.

 

[MTGseattle]

@Axelwik I understand the theory behind what you are saying, it seems like quite a compromise though. I do appreciate the reminder though as it's one of those "well duh?" things I would have skipped right past in the field.

 

[abruzzi]

there are a number of workarounds for lack of a particular movement. lack of parallel movements (rise/fall/shift) on one standard can be achieved by the opposite movement on the other. You can add rear swing or tilt (if your camera doesn't have it) by rotating or tilting the tripod then righting things with swing or tilt added to rise/fall or shift on the front.

I think these are all pretty common work arounds when you don’t have, or ran out of movement on one of your standards. The whole yaw-free discussion is most applicable when you have to substitute tripod movement for standard movement (adding rise or fall by tilting the tripod head.)

 

[Axelwik]

@Axelwik I understand the theory behind what you are saying, it seems like quite a compromise though. I do appreciate the reminder though as it's one of those "well duh?" things I would have skipped right past in the field.

It's not much of a compromise if the goal is to reduce weight and complexity. "Thinking" solutions are far more elegant than, "yet another feature." If my camera bag had every conceivable gadget for every "just in case" scenario I wouldn't be able to lift it!

 

[MSStudio]

As I recall, we needed a 300mm normal lens or longer to have any movements at all on an 8x10 camera. Any shorter focal lengths needed to be super angulons to have room for movements. Very important for still life or architecture.

 

[MTGseattle]

To the point of achieving shift by using swing on both standards though one ends up playing with the point of focus quite a lot to keep the standards parallel. Especially on a camera such as mine where the rear swing is pretty minimal anyway. If I thought shift was a huge need I would have landed on a different camera. It's just one of the "features" I didn't bother to question before I bought it.
My 8x10 to 4x5 reduction back journey while adding weight will save a lot of money. I have a bit of color 8x10 film on hand, but my color experience is limited so I'll cut my teeth on some 4x5 first. The reducing back weighs a lot less than an entire 4x5 camera kit.

@MSStudio I think I'm well sorted on 8x10 glass for now. my next jump would be something longer than 450mm which on my camera would need to be a Telephoto design. There is a 500mm "tele" I just found out about, but it seems to be uncommon and I'm not sure the added 50mm is worth the expense.
The various convertible "tele" lenses are odd, big and quite expensive.

 

[Vaughn]

As I recall, we needed a 300mm normal lens or longer to have any movements at all on an 8x10 camera. Any shorter focal lengths needed to be super angulons to have room for movements. Very important for still life or architecture.

The older Fuji W 250/6.7 covers 8x10 with plenty of movements at infinity. The older Fuji 180mm I might try on a relatively close-up scene, but with anything else I would need to include the loss of sharp coverage in the corners (even it well-illuminated) into the composition. Somewhat like I did below using a 159mm lens on an 8x10 (My Boys, Prairie Creek Redwoods, platinum print)

PS -- I also have a 210/6.8 coated Graphic Raptar that I used a lot before getting the Fuji W 250/6.7. A cute little barrel lens, it covers 8x10 easily with plenty of movements for landscape uses.

 

[MTGseattle]

I had Monday off, so I called my local camera store that usually stocks 8x10 film. They had some. Delta 100 25 sheets priced higher than Freestyle, but less than B&H.
Here's the oddity of the day. I also wanted to grad some more DD-X film developer. I picked up a jug, then noticed a freshly stocked area of Kodak Tmax developer. The Tmax was half of the Ilford's price. That seems like an unusually large gap. Maybe the Tmax is made and packaged within the US and the DD-X has to cross the pond. I guess that could account for it. Anyway, if you haven't been paying attention and thought Tmax developer was gone, it seems to be back. $15.31 for 1 liter of concentrate. $31 and change for 1 liter of DD-X.