Interesting salt print document

Marco B · Jun 21, 2010

Hi all,

Maybe interesting to read for some of you. Some recent (2008!) research work on salt prints by Eleanor (Ellie) D. Young:

Mechanisms of controlling colour and aesthetic appearance of the photographic salt print

Marco

Lionel1972 · Jun 21, 2010

Thank you very much, it sounds like a very interesting introduction to serious salt printing. Much appreciated.

Lionel.

paulie · Jun 21, 2010

its fantastic, some great advice and up to date.my printing is now under control thanks to this info

Marco B · Jun 21, 2010

paulie said:
its fantastic, some great advice and up to date.my printing is now under control thanks to this info

Well, I haven't even had the time to read it properly yet... and you already implemented advices. APUG keeps amazing me

Barry S · Jun 21, 2010

Marco--thanks for posting, this is great information.

Loris Medici · Jun 21, 2010

It's a great document Marco - thanks for the link and kudos to Ellie Young, and all involved!

I wish Ellie had also included agar-agar as a sizing option - if that's possible, I mean; there isn't any reference to it in the text.

Agar-agar makes a glossy surface (depending on strength) and a glossy surface adds great clarity and depth to the image - due less unwanted reflections/scattering. I know that from my experience in coating finished prints with polyurethane - it was giving me great great results! (See here, it looks like it's compatible with silver nitrate containing sensitizers...)

I'd definitely suggest it to people who are interested in salt prints - it could prove as a very nice option; definitely something to try...

Regards,
Loris.

Marco B · Jun 21, 2010

Loris Medici said:
I wish Ellie had also included agar-agar as a sizing option - if that's possible, I mean; there isn't any reference to it in the text.

Hi Loris,

Agar agar is also the ideal growth substrate for bacteria and molts. We used it during my Biology study, and you regularly see it in these SCI "who-did-it" or Mythbusters type programs.

Don't know how suitable it is as a supercoat. Maybe pure dried agar agar, without added "goodies" for the little monsters , isn't a bad thing after all.

Do you know more about it, and how it fares on the salted prints. And is it of use for albumen (they have their own gloss from the egg white?)

Marco

smieglitz · Jun 21, 2010

I once had a vegan student experiment with agar-agar as a sizing agent. It has some potential in that regard though he never quite got it to work evenly.

Loris Medici · Jun 21, 2010

Hi Marco. I don't know much about agar sizing - I used it only as a primer to print on impermeable substrates such as aluminum and glass. OTOH, I'm not sure if it can rot w/o any other nutrient in the mix!? For sake of clarity: Do you say that it will eventually decompose?

Joe, what strength he was using and what was the sizing method? (Brushing, immersion ect...)

Anyway, I'm going to definitely try it later - maybe not with salt prints but Vandykes definitely. I have to mix new sensitizer. I will have to return back to Vandyke within a couple of months; I plan a workshop in early Autumn...

Regards,
Loris.

Marco B · Jun 21, 2010

Loris Medici said:
Hi Marco. I don't know much about agar sizing - I used it only as a primer to print on impermeable substrates such as aluminum and glass. OTOH, I'm not sure if it can rot w/o any other nutrient in the mix!? For sake of clarity: Do you say that it will eventually decompose?

Hi Loris,

My knowledge is also quite limited. I just remembered it was derived from algae, which seems right, according to Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agar

My reference to a "growth medium" definitely involves adding "food" for the bacteria or molt. I don't think pure agar agar is a very attractive substrate.

It is described as polysaccharide, which means it is build of chains of sugar molecules (galactose in this case), and in that respect related to the cellulose of paper, which is also a polysaccharide.

It is in this respect different from gelatin, which is protein based, if I have to believe Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelatin#Composition_and_properties)

AgX · Jun 21, 2010

Marco B said:
It is in this respect different from gelatin, which is protein based, if I have to believe Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelatin#Composition_and_properties)

What else should one expect from something made from hides or bones...

Wyno · Jun 21, 2010

Loris,
It might be worthwhile contacting Ellie, she runs workshops at Trentham in Victoria, on a variety of things. If you google "Goldstreet Studios" in Australia, you should get straight to her website.
One of the teachers at the Gordon Institute where I work, did the salt printing course with Ellie and said that it was fantastic.
cheers
Mike

smieglitz · Jun 21, 2010

Loris,

I don't recall much of the agar experiment. I do remember that the agar wasn't fluid enough and had a tendency to congeal as it was applied with a brush. The student never really went far enough with the experiment to determine if it could be applied evenly or if it might have worked if mixed with another substance or somehow hardened. I think if someone was dedicated enough to such a project that good results might be had.

Andrew K · Jun 21, 2010

Hi

Ellie is very approachable - she runs a number of alternative printing workshops. I did her first tintype workshop earlier this year with Chris Reid (who runs Blanco Negro in Sydney ~ one of APUG's sponsors who sells FOMA film & paper & chemistry in Oz. Chris also teached fine printing with Ellie in Trentham) - it was great fun, and we each managed to do 6 tintypes on the day.....

I've let Ellie know about your interest in her paper - I'm sure she will be happy to answer any questions about it....

Cheers

Andrew

Kimberly Anderson · Jun 21, 2010

Marco,

I started dabbling with salt prints about a month ago. I haven't even read the paper yet and I'm sure it will make my images better.

Thank you for sharing this.

Loris Medici · Jun 22, 2010

Thanks Joe,

I think immersion and then squeegeeing (à la Sullivan - see "The New Platinum Print" for a description), or, maybe applying the size with a hot Dead Link Removed (I have a #30 coating rod on hands) could work in obtaining an even size.

Anyway, will definitely try this within a couple of months...

Regards,
Loris.

smieglitz said:
Loris,

I don't recall much of the agar experiment. I do remember that the agar wasn't fluid enough and had a tendency to congeal as it was applied with a brush. The student never really went far enough with the experiment to determine if it could be applied evenly or if it might have worked if mixed with another substance or somehow hardened. I think if someone was dedicated enough to such a project that good results might be had.

Ross Chambers · Jun 22, 2010

Hey someone should say it, Ellie is a bloody good salt printer, excellent prints, some of which will be shown at Meyer Gallery in Bourke Street Darlinghurst in a month or so.

I've made some progress in the technique (Strathmore 500 paper, double coat the silver nitrate) I'll probably buttonhole the poor lady.

Regards - Ross

Peter Schrager · Jun 23, 2010

while the paper is very informative doing the salt print process will yield almost the same amount of info...I beg to differ about the use of materials i.e. film where trix was never mentioned...I have used trix dev in xtol 1:1@n+1 and made really good salt prints...usually I just use the negs I make for platinum but in this case it was a workshop and produced a great print...just my 2 cents; Ya never know till u try it!!
Best, Peter

Interesting salt print document

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