interesting legalese on agfa films

bob100684 · Aug 13, 2007

I bought some CT Precisa from my friend and noticed this printed on the back of the cartridge "AGFAPHOTO is used under license of Agfa-Gevaert AG. Agfa-Gevaert AG does not manufacture these products or provide any warranty or support. For service, support and warranty information, contact the distributor or manufacturer. Made in EU. Agfaphoto Holding GmbH" then "produced for and distributed by Lupus imaging &media GmbH and Co.KG"

Is this just legalese for nothing important, or does it mean this film is actually a different film from what was availible when agfa was still around?

Monophoto · Aug 13, 2007

As a minimum it means that Lupus Imaging and Media purchased the rights to use the Agfa trade name and trademark.

It may also mean that Lupus bought the rights to manufacture a product to Agfa specifications - but it doesn't explicitly say that. However, from a marketing perspective, it would be kind of dumb to give a product a recognizable name if that product has performance characteristics that are noticeably different from the product whose name is being used.

So you really don't know if it is the same as the old Agfa film of the same name. But there certainly is a strong hint.

TheFlyingCamera · Aug 13, 2007

The depths of stupidity in business know no bounds...

witness the Edsel. Or the continued existence of the Bell and Howell name. They're now marketing electric shavers through As-Seen-On-TV type marketing that sell for TWO for $29! That's Right, TWO TWO TWO for just $29! and we'll throw in the nose and ear hair trimmer too if you call NOW NOW NOW!!!

c.d.ewen · Aug 13, 2007

They even say something like, "It's from Bell & Howell, so you know it's good!"

TheFlyingCamera said:
The depths of stupidity in business know no bounds...

witness the Edsel. Or the continued existence of the Bell and Howell name. They're now marketing electric shavers through As-Seen-On-TV type marketing that sell for TWO for $29! That's Right, TWO TWO TWO for just $29! and we'll throw in the nose and ear hair trimmer too if you call NOW NOW NOW!!!

Kino · Aug 13, 2007

The only "true" branch of Bell & Howell left was purchased by RTI/Lipsner Smith and they continue to make BHP (Bell & Howell Professional) 35/16mm motion picture contact printers.

Hawking crappy electric razors on TV; It is a sad fate for such a noble name...

Photo Engineer · Aug 13, 2007

Anyone want a Kodak teddy bear. It is yellow, of course with a big Kodak logo on the fake t-shirt it is wearing.

PE

ath · Aug 13, 2007

based on this (in german) the situation is this:
Lupus is a trading company and bought the rights to use the agfa name. They bought also lots of original agfa film in bulk and someone cuts and boxes them for lupus.
Vista: new stuff from whoever, "comparable" to the agfa vista
CT precisa 100: original stuff
Scala: original stock till 2011 or 2012
APX: original stock till 2011 or 2012

btw, interesting name, lupus.

Photo Engineer · Aug 13, 2007

Any film cut from real Agfa film master rolls would now be several years old. Any film produced using Agfa formulas would be close to Agfa films if not identical. Any films produced licencing the Agfa names could be anything.

PE

copake_ham · Aug 13, 2007

bob100684 said:
I bought some CT Precisa from my friend and noticed this printed on the back of the cartridge "AGFAPHOTO is used under license of Agfa-Gevaert AG. Agfa-Gevaert AG does not manufacture these products or provide any warranty or support. For service, support and warranty information, contact the distributor or manufacturer. Made in EU. Agfaphoto Holding GmbH" then "produced for and distributed by Lupus imaging &media GmbH and Co.KG"

Is this just legalese for nothing important, or does it mean this film is actually a different film from what was availible when agfa was still around?

I don't see any confusion in this statement - it is a standard legal notice and disclaimer.

It simply states that the Agfa-Gevaert A.G. division of AGfaphoto Holding GmbH has licensed the trademark AGFAPHOTO to Lupus....

It further notes that any warranty claims, servicing requests etc. should be directed solely to Lupus, as Agfa (in either guise) assumes no responsibility for the product sold under the licensed trademark.

As to whether the emulsion and performance characteristics of the Lupus-produced film are the same as that formerly produced by Agfa - I suggest you contact Lupus.

AgX · Aug 14, 2007

Photo Engineer said:
Any film cut from real Agfa film master rolls would now be several years old.

-) There is NO indication that Agfa has stopped coating film.

-) The last coating done by AgfaPhoto (in Leverkusen) was done in october 2005; I wouldn’t call this `several years ago´.

(By the way, last Sunday the Agfa plant in Mortsel still looked, sounded and smelled like a chemical plant…)

AgX · Aug 14, 2007

Keep in mind that Agfa is running a legal case against the Agfaphoto Holding on the license issue. So Lupus, who seemingly got their licences from Agfaphoto Holding, are legally in a fairly weak position.

(Agfa seems to take the position that Agfaphoto only was given the right to use the Agfa brand name to go on with the business taken over from Agfa in november 2004. Which would be be of no substance with the ending of production about a year later.)

Photo Engineer · Aug 14, 2007

AgX;

We have 3 Agfa plants (Leverkusen (Agfa after WWII), Morstel (Gevaert merged with Agfa) and Orwo (Rejoined the flock? after the reunification of Germany in the 90s). And, two years have indeed passed. So, which Agfa formula/plant combination are we talking about producing which Agfa formula?

This becomes a very slippery slope to walk upon. In just the keeping alone, two years is a long time for some products and not for others and we cannot be sure of how some products were kept. I have stories of some master rolls getting TLC and others being given no special handling. I have reports of people with 'authentic' formulas and others recreating them from memory.

This is NOT a negative comment, as I could do the same for Kodak formulas, but the final result will have to be in the eyes of the customer. I feel it my obligation to point out that this may not be "Agfa" film, but none of us can tell for sure.

My wife bought some point and shoot films in the midwest that were filled with Agfa color film that took excellent pictures. The Agfa logo appeared nowhere except for the edge markings after processing.

Only time will tell.

Oh, and the Kodak plant still smells like a chemical plant.

PE

AgX · Aug 14, 2007

Photo Engineer said:
AgX;

We have 3 Agfa plants (Leverkusen (Agfa after WWII), Morstel (Gevaert merged with Agfa) and Orwo (Rejoined the flock? after the reunification of Germany in the 90s). And, two years have indeed passed. So, which Agfa formula/plant combination are we talking about producing which Agfa formula?

PE,

That's exactly the question. Here at Apug everyone uses the term Agfa as he likes at the very moment. For stock currently offered under the name Agfa I refer to anything coming from Mortsel. However, some of it has been produced up to Masterroll state or just to emulsion state in Leverkusen...

Concerning the AgfaPhoto brand: in that article ath has referred to above it is stated that the current Agfaphoto Vista films are not from the Leverkusen plant (AgfaPhoto), implying that they are not any kind of Agfa films at all.

Photo Engineer · Aug 14, 2007

Oh, I agree totally with you.

The problem is that the average APUG member does not know all of these facts and therefore can be misled. The final result can only be in the eyes of the discerning customer.

I leave it at that.

PE

AgX · Aug 14, 2007

Yes, without having read that article I would not thought about that either. (The Vista datasheets offered by Lupos look quite Agfa´ish though.)

bob100684 · Aug 20, 2007

I just got the slides back, and wow, completely neutral and just a bit saturated colors. Amazing, its just the way I remember the scenes

interesting legalese on agfa films

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