Instructions on how to hoard film

Sort of a tongue in cheek question but I'm wondering how do you all hoard film? (for those that do).

For example, Neopan 400 has been discontinued and will soon disappear. If you wanted this film, and still could get it for a reasonable price, how much would you buy? $100? $1000? $10,000 worth?

I have about 80 boxes in the freezer but can still buy more at $4/box, perhaps a bit less. I am thinking about buying more this weekend but am wondering when to stop buying.

Thoughts?

I think you'd be wise to learn to adapt to whatever materials are current and available. The history of photography has always been all about change. Use what you have and move on. Never freeze film stock.

If it is discontinued I'd select some other film that is available fresh. I'd prefer not to use expired film unless someone gives it to me or it is a few pennies per roll. Buying film to let it expire is a waste in my opinion.

I like Neopan 400, I shoot it in 35mm and I have 30 rolls, I'm not planning to get any more. Since in 120 I shoot TriX, I will use it in 35mm too.
At the moment I mix my shooting of Neopan and TriX in 35mm.

I also have 30 rolls of 125px in 35mm and 25 in 120.
I have 30 rolls of Reala in 120.
16 rolls of E100VS in 35mm and 15 in 120.
10 rolls of E100G in 120.

Currently I'm in process of getting 70 rolls of E100G and E100VS in 120. I will use up around half of my E100VS stock on my trip to Myanmar end of this year. I will keep the other half for when I go to India/Nepal/South East Asia. I think this films work great there.

I have all of this films with specific purposes in mind, but once it's all gone, I have replacements for them. The only thing that I don't have replacement for is Provia 400X.

Ratty,

For this and so many of your posts, may I recommend that you buy a copy of the following book. It is long out of print but it was very popular in its time and is still readily available at very reasonable prices on the used market. The author addresses the question you have posed in this thread in the forward.


Aaron Sussman
The Amateur Photographer's Handbook, 8th edition, completely revised
(C) 1973, Thomas Y. Crowell Company, Inc.


EDIT: here are a bunch on eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/311043356689?lpid=82

Buy, hoard, worry, get old, worry, die, there is a memorial garage sale, no one knows what that "film stuff" looks like, they open it but there are no pictures, they toss it in the garbage. It sits in the land fill until one day it is dug up and shot into outer space because that is what they do with toxic waste in the future.

I would buy them as many as I can afford. I would keep buying them until they are all gone or their price goes out of my reach.

In hindsight, I regret I didn't buy more E100G and E100VS when they were still available from Adorama and B&H. Every time I was outbid on ebay for E100VS only increases my sore.

All my E100G/VS are in my freezer. They are all expired but are as good as new. A few weeks ago I just shot one roll that is more than a year expired, and all the shots came out great.

Each emulsion has its own look and you can hardly find a completely perfect replacement for you. Eventually you'll need to adapt to use what's available. But there is nothing wrong to hoard what you love when they are still around.

$4 a box? How many rolls in a box? If its more than one I want some too!

trythis said:

$4 a box? How many rolls in a box? If its more than one I want some too!

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Just one. It's actually $4.50 per box here. Supply is still good but for how much longer, who knows?

philosli said:

I would buy them as many as I can afford. I would keep buying them until they are all gone or their price goes out of my reach.

In hindsight, I regret I didn't buy more E100G and E100VS when they were still available from Adorama and B&H. Every time I was outbid on ebay for E100VS only increases my sore.

All my E100G/VS are in my freezer. They are all expired but are as good as new. A few weeks ago I just shot one roll that is more than a year expired, and all the shots came out great.

Each emulsion has its own look and you can hardly find a completely perfect replacement for you. Eventually you'll need to adapt to use what's available. But there is nothing wrong to hoard what you love when they are still around.

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I guess this is the sensible answer. I will order up as much as they have in the store. Time for the mother load. I really enjoy this film and want to shoot it for as long as I can.

Nuff said:

I have all of this films with specific purposes in mind, but once it's all gone, I have replacements for them. The only thing that I don't have replacement for is Provia 400X.

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That's another film very available here in Shanghai. I have 20 rolls or so in the freezer. I'm not 100% committed to slide film so I am hesitant to hoard this one, even though as you say, there is no replacement.

BradS said:

Never freeze film stock.

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This flies in the face of most of the wisdom in this entire forum.

ic-racer said:

If it is discontinued I'd select some other film that is available fresh. I'd prefer not to use expired film unless someone gives it to me or it is a few pennies per roll. Buying film to let it expire is a waste in my opinion.

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Frozen film does not expire on the date printed on the box.

Buy it, put it in sealed bags, write the purchase date on the bag, put it in the bottom of the freezer. Done.

Yeah, your stock will eventually run out and you'll eventually need to learn to use a new film, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't keep using your favourite film for another decade, if that's the film that you understand and know you work well with. The only caveat I'd put is "don't buy more than you can use before it starts to degrade", unless of course you intend to sell it at a profit in 3 years time.

I had a stash of RVP50 in 4x5 that I sold and now really really regret that because the market price has trebled in 12mo. I had a decent stash of Acros that I bought for $2.60/roll which was good, but now that it's running out I'm going to be paying at least $5/roll shipped. If I had bought and stashed more, I'd be running on cheaper film for longer. I think that buying popular-but-soon-discontinued films as a resale/investment process is actually a pretty reasonable thing to do IMHO, I certainly see a lot of it here on APUG and recently bought up again on Acros from what was clearly someone's nest-egg stash. They made at least $2/roll on that transaction, which was $200 profit straight from me alone, in exchange for (I hope!) some freezer space. I reckon they would have made at least $600 profit from their recent little film sale, probably closer to $1000 going by the expiration dates.

Anyone want some 120 400VC outta my freezer? "Suitable for lomography"

hi rattymouse

i would be hesitant in hoarding color materials.
while they are robust and will last their time in solitary confinement
you may have trouble having they converted to negatives oe chromes if
you are not able to self process ... and whatever films you start piling up
shoot from the bottom of the pile from time to time so you know what your baseline
look is ... thungs change over time...
id be careful buying too much ...money is worth a lot more than film and it will always be avaiavle
on the expired market.

RattyMouse said:

Frozen film does not expire on the date printed on the box.

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Yes but it's close to starting to get old.

My thought is this, if it's an emulsion you like and it's close date or just expired, and you can get it for the same or less price than whatever film you're going to eventually have to switch to, then buy as much as you think you'll use.

IF the price is MORE for an expired film because it has a cult following, don't bother and just use the replacement which you will end up with anyway.

I've got about 10 rolls of 35mm and 10 rolls of 120 and then it's over, switching officially to HP5+ after that. Not the same, but... Versatile, great look, more chance of it sticking around and not having to switch AGAIN etc.

At $4 per box I think that's at or below price of any replacement so I say buy it all up, just don't buy more than you'll use in 2 years, as then it really will get "expired" and start to fog a bit, depends on how persnickety you are and what speed the film is.

Good luck!

RattyMouse said:

This flies in the face of most of the wisdom in this entire forum.

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Wisdom?
I used Fotokemia film for a while cause it was cheap and reliable.
They went bust.
The rest of you were buying Fuji and Kodak.
Today if is more sensible to buy Foma or Ilford.

No point hoarding any more, as the really good films are already more or less gone form the marked (Plus-x, Tri-X 320 in 120, Neopan400 in 120, EFKE 25/50, EFKE IR ...).

Kidding
I have loads of Acros in 120 and 35mm and I also went on a eBay-rampage in 2012, picking up a good amount of Neopan 400 in 120 (I think I have 40-50 rolls) and I also bought the same amount in 35mm.
- The 120 was bought trough an auction on eBay and I think I paid around $6 per roll in 120 (bought 40 rolls from a guy that had 200, exp 2011, to sell from his deep freezer).
Last year, I shot some Neopan 400 exp 2009, stored very well and it worked beautifully.

I also have a great deal of Velvia 50 in 120 stashed in my freezer.

Why?

I don't trust Fuji one bit, the way they have killed of films lately, leaves no other option than to have a buffer.

Also, the argument "Why learn a film that is expired" is rather mute; If you (meaning me) buys 40 rolls in 120 of something, I have enough film for several years worth of shooting.
How much longer will Tri-x be available on the marked? No one knows, what if you started to learn the stuff today and two years from now, it got the axe? It can happen, it happened to Plus-x and Tri-x 320....

Besides, if you haven't "learned" a film properly, does that mean that you will get blank frames? You can develop them as per recommendation on MDC and get great results, not everyone has the need to produce Ansel type technical negatives and prints of boring landscapes.

As long as you have a stash, you can learn and shoot and have fun and then move on to something else.

I also bought EFKE/Adox when the word on Fotokemika ceasing production was out. These films (ISO 50/25) will hold up "forever" in my freezer anyway, they are good films, I'd like to shoot some, plain and simple. I even bought bulk-rolls, to be able to hone-in my technique better with them, before shooting my 120-stuff.

I also have Kodak films (color-films, plus-x in 120 and 35mm, and also 40 rolls of Tri-x in 120 for example), since trusting a company filing for bankruptcy is stupid, the story about Kodak isn't over yet.

It's your money, buy what you like and shoot what you like, there is no set rule out there, forbidding you to do whatever you like with them.
Most films will keep "like new" in the deep-freezer for a very long time, so apart from critical power failures and fires, the risk is pretty low imo.


I am actually contemplating on selling a few rolls of Fuji Neopan 1600 from cold storage, as I really didn't shoot as much as I planned initially, this film will not keep for as long, but mine have been in the freezer since 2012 (exp 07/2013) and works just fine still.

Not sure what the prices are these days though, I am not into hoarding as an investment.

I don't have a whining wife either, so I can spend my money as I like. LOL!

Helinophoto said:

No point hoarding any more, as the really good films are already more or less gone form the marked ([...], EFKE IR ...)

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Apart from the Rollei 400, there is no longer any IR sheet film on the market. Sure, the EFKE offering had a few quality issues, but it came on a thicker base than the Rollei stuff. I managed to stock up on a couple of boxes, so I have enough to last me until a crowd-funded Ilford SFX200 in 5x4 hits the market.

If you have the money spare, and freezer space available, stock up.

RattyMouse said:

This flies in the face of most of the wisdom in this entire forum.

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why is that ?

buying special feeezers, spending $$on electricity to add a few weeks
or days onto a product that is might be the same stored at a constant ambient
temperature seems like a mis-spent chunk of time and energy that could
be placed elsewhere. i started a thread a while back asking for personal experiences
regarding shelf stored films ( personal observations, not science data ) regarding
cold storage vs. ambient storage ...
mr bill ( someone who worked in the commercial portrait industry for years ) told
of tests his company performed on color negative film in hot boxes for long periods with
no real loss of quality, others attested to a little? fog ( science data that has still never been explained )
for b/w emulsions ... from my personal observations people spend more energy trying to
make it seem as if thie fill will be "new" 5 or 10 years after its exp date than they do actually making photographs.

I'd buy a bit of it, but ultimately we're shooting ourselves in the foot when we spend lots of money on discontinued emulsions. I think it's healthier in the long run for film manufacturers, retailers, and users when we buy fresh film.

I've still got some rolls of the Legacy Pro stuff that I stashed away when Freestyle was unloading it. Its being stored in my basement refrigerator and so far it's still looking good. Once it's gone I'm not really sure what I am going to use as a replacement, though Foma looks interesting. I bought 100 rolls of each speed and still have a brick of the 400. So far it still looks really good. As for the replacement when it's gone, I'm still not sure. I'll have to do some experimenting, though some of the ADOX offerings looks interesting. But I'll figure that out when it happens.

jnanian said:

from my personal observations people spend more energy trying to
make it seem as if thie fill will be "new" 5 or 10 years after its exp date than they do actually making photographs.

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Nah....
- Buy a freezer-box for cheap/used/get one for free
- Put film in said box
- Put box on "on", leave to simmer.

The energy-usage hasn't actually affected by personal budget the way photography in general has

madgardener: Since the Legacy pro 400 is said to be Neopan 400, I would believe that Tri-X would be a good substitute for that, the legacy 100 was Acros and can be replaced by that, depending on the economy offcourse.

Lot's of cool 100 ISO out there, not too many 400 alternatives (especially in 120)

eh? in 120, there's at least 400TX, TMY2, HP5, Delta 400, Foma 400, Rollei 400S... how many 400-speed B&W emulsions do you really need?

While I understand being sad that one's favourite film might have been discontinued (and holding onto your stash is a totally reasonable thing to do), this is B&W we're talking about. If you can't get wonderful results from at least half of the above choices, you're doing something wrong. If the vagaries of the emulsion are more important than the content of your photos, you're doing something very wrong. The loss of any one or two or even half of those films, in the grand scheme of things, is completely irrelevant - if you want to shoot 400-speed B&W film, you will be able to for the forseeable future. If/when Kodak dies, I expect that Ilford will thrive.

OTOH, Kodak is the only manufacturer of a full range of C41 films. If they stop, then that will be an earth-shattering change for photography; there literally is no substitute for a number of products that they sell. You bet your arse I will be buying as much Portra, Ektar and developer as I can possibly afford at that point!

Same goes for Fuji E6 films - if they stop, then there are no other credible options in current production. I do fully expect Fuji to exit film though.