Instructions for the Moersch SE5 Lith extras

[mrtoml]

I received a new batch of Moersch SE5 yesterday and it has a new additive (Omega) in addition to C and D which is nice, but the instructions for using it seem a little vague. Has anyone tried the Omega?

It appears that you use it as a second bath and pull the print from a strong first lith bath before completion and then put it in the Omega which enhances colour and black density. But how do you know when to pull from the 1st bath and how long does the 2nd bath last once diluted? It says it has a limited life, but as there is not much of this solution to begin with it would be nice to have a ballpark figure.

I also received the extra additives 'E' which I believe enhances blacks and gives more grain and 'F' which shifts colours towards red, but there are no instructions at all with these. Anyone have any ideas how much E and F to add and how long they last?

Wolfgang? Anyone...?

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

From the instruction sheet:
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/pdf/SE5_Master_Lith_Kit_Instructions.pdf

New - Lith Q
Dilute 1+100 before using as a second bath after a stronger 1st developer (approx. 1+10 or 10-15
dropps per litre). The solution contains Ammonium Carbonate with no antioxidant in order to increase
colour intensity and density at the same time. This is most apparent with those papers which have a
smaller silver-bromide component such as Fomatone or Forte. The length of the process is reduced by
about a half with a further plus that the more concentrated 1" developer lasts longer as it is used for
shorter period. The 2" bath has by nature only a limited life and should be replaced as soon as it
becomes dark red.

 

[mrtoml]

Thanks, Thomas. I already have these instructions, but they don't fully answer my questions.

Namely what is the capacity of the Omega other than it has 'limited life'? If the Omega only does 3 or 4 prints then it will quickly run out as there is not much provided in the kit - I don't think it can be purchased separately at least in the UK.

And how does one determine the snatch point in the first bath - I don't quite know what 'about half' means? Presumably you develop a print as per normal in the first bath and then cut this in half as a starting point. Again if this requires a lot of experimentation then you will quickly run out of Omega.

More crucially for me though the instructions have no guidelines for additives E and F (sold separately) at all.

Cheers.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

It says to replace it as soon as it becomes dark red. I'm sure its capacity is dependent on how you mix it and what paper and size you use. Even the density of the print could affect it. I would think it's hard to say exactly.
Why not PM Wolfgang Moersch who frequents the forums. He posted a couple of images the other day, you can reach him via PM in those posts. Or you can use the email address that's in the instruction sheet.

- Thomas

 

[mrtoml]

It says to replace it as soon as it becomes dark red. I'm sure its capacity is dependent on how you mix it and what paper and size you use. Even the density of the print could affect it. I would think it's hard to say exactly.

This is true of most developers, but this does not stop manufacturers giving guidelines (even if they are quite rough). Wolfgang gives some guidelines for the capacity of the standard one bath process. If the capacity of the Omega is very limited, then I don't want to waste much time with it as there is not much of the solution to begin with and you cannot buy more of it as far as I can tell without purchasing another expensive kit. I am very busy and don't want to waste time experimenting with something that is not practical in the longer run.

I don't think it is too much to ask that manufacturers of chemistry give guidelines for their products. There are no instructions at all for the additives E and F. I'm sure these are oversights as the instructions with most Moersch products are much better than with many other products I have used. It is slightly annoying nonetheless.

Why not PM Wolfgang Moersch who frequents the forums. He posted a couple of images the other day, you can reach him via PM in those posts. Or you can use the email address that's in the instruction sheet.

- Thomas

I am going to do PM him. I was trying here first to try and see whether anyone else here is using this kit and to keep potentially useful information on lith on the forum rather than just in private hands. I will post any information when I receive a reply.

Cheers.

 

[mrtoml]

I received a very detailed reply from Wolfgang. Here it is:

Mark Tomlinson schrieb:
> Dear Wolfgang,
>
> I received a new batch of SE5 and it has a new additive (Omega) in
> addition to C and D which is nice, but the instructions for using it
> seem a little vague. Can you clarify a couple of things, please?
>
> Namely what is the capacity of the Omega other than it has 'limited
> life'? If the Omega only does 3 or 4 prints per litre at 1+100 then it
> will quickly run out as there is not much provided in the kit - I
> don't think it can be purchased separately at least in the UK if I am
> not mistaken. This makes it a bit pointless for me even to try as I
> will run out of Omega well before I run out of lith A and B.

Your Feedback is helpful. I cannot yet judge whether Omega is really be used or not. It was primarily intended as separated optional additive. Just for testing purposes I have enclosed it to SE5 - without changing the selling price of the kit. Please mention, it ony works well with chloride-emulsions like Fomatone or Forte. With Kentona or Kentmere Warmtone it works less colorfull, it doesn´t work with bromide papers. Therefor the field of application is bordered.

The Omega-bath works for 5-10 prints (24x30cm) or more, but with stronger saturation the effect will change. Normaly I make one litre and use 500ml and discard it, when it turns red.

>
> It appears that you use it as a second bath and pull the print from a
> strong first lith bath before completion and then put it in the Omega
> which enhances colour and black density. But how do you know when to
> pull from the 1st bath: I don't quite know what 'about halfway' means?
> Presumably you develop a print as per normal in the first bath and
> then cut this time in half as a starting point? Or is there a better
> way?

It is simpler than it seems to be. The normal way, to achieve destinctive chromaticity is a strong overexposure and that causes a strong dilution (1+30 ore more) and extended developing time.

Using Omega the same overexposure is needed, but with a dilution of 1+6 - 1+9 the image appeares quite quickly. You have to choose aexposure time, that the apperance of the shadows takes place in 1,5-3 minutes. Than you change into the second bath (Omega 1+100 - 1+500). The strength of the development in this bath is dependent on the amount of developer you carried over. As a rule, one or two minutes are enough, after three minutes the hydroquinone is exhausted.

>
> I also received the extra additives 'E' which I believe enhances
> blacks and gives more grain and 'F' which shifts colours towards red,
> but there are no instructions at all with these. What are good
> starting points for E and F and how long do these additives last in
> the bottle?

On the contrary to omega, F is an additive to replace a part of A - or in additional to A. It will fill up the midtones. F is more difficult than omega - therefor it will disappear in the near future.

Lith E (small amounts!) makes grain with bromide papers, with warmtone papers it draws off color and increases black.

F will last 1-3 years in filled bottle. E will last at infinity.

>
> Can I purchase your chemistry directly from you? Retro Photographic do
> not seem to have all your excellent products.

Yes, but shipping charge to GB is quite expensive - it is depending on weight. If you need a greater amount of omega, just let me know.

I hope you understand what I try to say in English.