Inside dial set Compur

SalveSlog · Oct 22, 2017

I want to share a picture from inside the shutter on a Zeiss Icarette B. I intended to remove the shutter blades to clean them on both sides. But the screws that's holding them seems to be grinded after mounting? So for 2 of them there is no hold for the screwdriver. I may be the first one inside this shutter, so I suspect this was done in the factory.
What's more: the part of the blade that's surrounding the screw is bent and there is some tool marks on the mechanism plate. So maybe the grinding tool slipped?!

However, this shutter does not really have a problem. Shutter times are about right.. I was just curious to see an early Compur from inside. Still, it would not hurt to clean it, but I guess I have to just dump it in solvent instead of cleaning each blade separately.

I may have one question: There don't seem to have been put any oil or grease on any parts except maybe the thing(s) below the cocking lever (don't know the right name). Anyone know where this old Compurs were supposed to be lubed? Maybe, like the Prontors: nowhere?

Ian Grant · Oct 22, 2017

There's a basic Shutter repair manual available on-line that covers the Dial-Set Compur, I've used it when repairing a Velosto (Optimo in the US) shutter, it covers a wide range early shutters. Might be on Butkus.

Ian

bernard_L · Oct 22, 2017

Have a look into these:
http://www.suaudeau.eu/memo/manuels_rep/obturateurs/compur_rapid_shutter_repair(2).pdf
http://www.suaudeau.eu/memo/rep/Compur-shutter-repair-manual.html
The second page has links (among other) to lubrication schemes. Good luck.

SalveSlog said:
However, this shutter does not really have a problem.

If it ain't broke don't fix it. You satisfied your curiosity by looking inside. Re-assemble and consider yourself lucky that it works.

SalveSlog · Oct 22, 2017

Ian Grant said:
There's a basic Shutter repair manual available on-line that covers the Dial-Set Compur, I've used it when repairing a Velosto (Optimo in the US) shutter, it covers a wide range early shutters. Might be on Butkus.
Ian

You probably mean this:
http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/repair_1.html
I used it when I opened this shutter! But there is nothing on lubing, I think.

SalveSlog · Oct 22, 2017

bernard_L said:
Have a look into these:
http://www.suaudeau.eu/memo/manuels_rep/obturateurs/compur_rapid_shutter_repair(2).pdf

Thanks for that one! (Though it's a later shutter.)

bernard_L said:
http://www.suaudeau.eu/memo/rep/Compur-shutter-repair-manual.html
The second page has links (among other) to lubrication schemes. Good luck.
If it ain't broke don't fix it. You satisfied your curiosity by looking inside. Re-assemble and consider yourself lucky that it works.

True, but ... my life is a battle against the perfectionist inside me!

Ian Grant · Oct 22, 2017

SalveSlog said:
You probably mean this:
http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/repair_1.html
I used it when I opened this shutter! But there is nothing on lubing, I think.

Yes that's the one, I did take a quick look to see if it was on Cameraeccentric and missed it

Mine all run perfectly dry, the oldest are pre WW1and just as smooth and accurate as the fast. Can't help where might be best to lubricate.

Ian

shutterfinger · Oct 22, 2017

I put a drop of oil about the size of a straight pin point on pivots and a trace of grease on sliding levers and the inside of slots that slide on posts.
It makes the shutter run smoother and quieter.

John Koehrer · Oct 22, 2017

^^^What shutterfinger said, if it rotates, oil if it slides, a trace of grease.
No lube anywhere the near the blade pivots

E. von Hoegh · Oct 23, 2017

SalveSlog said:
I want to share a picture from inside the shutter on a Zeiss Icarette B. I intended to remove the shutter blades to clean them on both sides. But the screws that's holding them seems to be grinded after mounting? So for 2 of them there is no hold for the screwdriver. I may be the first one inside this shutter, so I suspect this was done in the factory.
What's more: the part of the blade that's surrounding the screw is bent and there is some tool marks on the mechanism plate. So maybe the grinding tool slipped?!

However, this shutter does not really have a problem. Shutter times are about right.. I was just curious to see an early Compur from inside. Still, it would not hurt to clean it, but I guess I have to just dump it in solvent instead of cleaning each blade separately.

I may have one question: There don't seem to have been put any oil or grease on any parts except maybe the thing(s) below the cocking lever (don't know the right name). Anyone know where this old Compurs were supposed to be lubed? Maybe, like the Prontors: nowhere?

View attachment 188703

View attachment 188704

No. Some barbarian tried to pry the screw out, and whatever they were using slipped. The gouge and bend tell the whole story.
If you want to remove the screws, it's easy. Get a stiff strip of steel the width of the screwhead and bend the end at about a 30 degree angle about 1/4" in from one end. Superglue the bent portion to the screwhead and unscrew. Degrease everything first, and don't use so much glue that you stick the blade the the rest of the shutter. Soaking in acetone will remove the screw from the "tool".

SalveSlog · Oct 23, 2017

E. von Hoegh said:
No. Some barbarian tried to pry the screw out, and whatever they were using slipped. The gouge and bend tell the whole story.

Maybe, but there is no trace of any barbarism elsewhere. That's why I think it was never opened.

E. von Hoegh said:
If you want to remove the screws, it's easy. Get a stiff strip of steel the width of the screwhead and bend the end at about a 30 degree angle about 1/4" in from one end. Superglue the bent portion to the screwhead and unscrew. Degrease everything first, and don't use so much glue that you stick the blade the the rest of the shutter. Soaking in acetone will remove the screw from the "tool".

I was planning something like this. Thanks for giving me courage!

E. von Hoegh · Oct 23, 2017

SalveSlog said:
Maybe, but there is no trace of any barbarism elsewhere. That's why I think it was never opened.

I was planning something like this. Thanks for giving me courage!

I thought of it in the 1980s when I had to remove the back of a Rolex watch. The tool was about $150, then available only from Rolex. Worked like a charm, no marks on the back. I've since picked up the proper tool used for a much more realistic price.

That's definitely a pry mark, no grinder could leave a mark like that.

shutterfinger · Oct 24, 2017

I would take a taper file, sit it on edge over the existing trace of the screwdriver slot and file it just deep enough for a 2.5mm jewelers to catch in then unscrew it. An alternative would be to grip the edges of the screw head with needle nose pliers or vise grips and break it loose then unscrew by hand without tools.

SalveSlog · Oct 24, 2017

Just another picture of the mystic (to me) toolmarks. Note the one to the left beneath the blade wing.

SalveSlog · Oct 24, 2017

Shutterfinger,
I've considered something like that too, but the screw head is under 3mm wide. And the remains of the head is very thin. This shutter is from a 6x6 folding camera with aperture 1:4.5, so it's quite a lot smaller than its LF big brothers.

shutterfinger · Oct 24, 2017

SalveSlog said:
Just another picture of the mystic (to me) toolmarks. Note the one to the left beneath the blade wing.

Serviced by fumble fingers who dropped it.

SalveSlog said:
I've considered something like that too, but the screw head is under 3mm wide. And the remains of the head is very thin. This shutter is from a 6x6 folding camera with aperture 1:4.5, so it's quite a lot smaller than its LF big brothers.

You will be surprised how shallow a grove in a screw head is needed to turn the screw unless its froze in the plate. Been there........

E. von Hoegh · Oct 24, 2017

SalveSlog said:
Shutterfinger,
I've considered something like that too, but the screw head is under 3mm wide. And the remains of the head is very thin. This shutter is from a 6x6 folding camera with aperture 1:4.5, so it's quite a lot smaller than its LF big brothers.

SalveSlog said:
Just another picture of the mystic (to me) toolmarks. Note the one to the left beneath the blade wing.

View attachment 188822

That one by the tail of the blade looks like it might have happened early in production before finish machining was carried out. There's a ding, too, the tail is pointing at it.
Filing a new slot on that screw might allow half (or all) the head to break off. If you use the superglue trick, you could file two flats at 180 degrees (use a #6 Swiss file) so in future it can be removed with a tiny wrench, also a product of the #6 file.

shutterfinger · Oct 24, 2017

E. von Hoegh said:
Filing a new slot on that screw might allow half (or all) the head to break off.

Judgement call as to your skills and risk you're willing to take.

paul ron · Oct 25, 2017

on screws like that I've drilled a couple small holes with a dental bit (but don't drill through) so I can use a spanner to get it out.

trying to make a slot is almost impossible at the angle required without damaging surroundings.

Inside dial set Compur

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