Infrared Slide Film..?

[Contrastique]

I'm asking this question on the behalf of someone I know and it intriqued me as well. Is there still an infrared slidefilm around?? Kodak made the IE and EIR but they're both discontinued now..? At least I can't find them anywhere nor order them from Kodak as they say they no longer sell them.

Is there an alternative or does anyone know where I can find this?
Thanx in advance.

 

[railwayman3]

I'm sure there's no infrared slide film now available, but there is a B&W film made by Efke (which I've not tried yet) and also Ilford SFX, which gives a sort of semi-infra-red effect (great film for pictorial work, but not intended for "scientific" IR work.)

The Ilford version is readily available. Remaining stocks of the two Kodak films sold out very quickly. You see them on E-bay occasionally, but (despite the fact that the last batches now seem to be out-dated) they fetch high prices.

Wish I had stocked up with the Kodak when it was available (to use, not to profit)....at least I did stock up with Kodachrome 25!

 

[keithwms]

I think dr5 can slide-process IR-exposed stuff for you. They have done the Rollei IR stuff for me that way, albeit not with IR exposure (just using it as a scala substitute), but I don't see why not...

Just mind that a characteristic of IR shots of foliage in particular are quite prone to blocked up highlights. So if it were me, I would stick with the processing that gives me the best chance to have good highlight detail.

 

[AgX]

Well, one requirement for a slide film would be a high Dmax.

The new GTP is has an extreme high Dmax (more than the late Scala). Though, I would not call him an IR-film.

But with a strong filtration and many stops overexposure you could give it a try in a reversal process.

Or... try to reverse those current two IR-35mm films.

 

[AutumnJazz]

Reversal process it. Ian Grant has posted some "recipies" about reversal processing B&W negs.

 

[kavandje]

According to manufacturer's specs, Rollei IR400 is based on Agfa Scala and will take to reversal processing very well, so that might be a good solution for you. I haven't tried reversal-processing it myself however, so caveat emptor.

The IR effect of Rollei IR is much-discussed, but personally I like it. Shot through a true IR filter (I use a B+W 092IR) the effect is definitely not a 'quasi-IR' effect, although it's definitely not as radical as Kodak's. IMO it makes the film more versatile, especially since it can also be used as a plain-vanilla extended-red 400.

 

[colrehogan]

I'm asking this question on the behalf of someone I know and it intriqued me as well. Is there still an infrared slidefilm around?? Kodak made the IE and EIR but they're both discontinued now..? At least I can't find them anywhere nor order them from Kodak as they say they no longer sell them.

Is there an alternative or does anyone know where I can find this?
Thanx in advance.

EIR was the only IR slide film (that was actually made as a slide film). HIE was made as a print film. The other IR films available currently are made as print films. So, no there are no IR slide films around anymore.

 

[coigach]

Dr5 process most b+w film as transparencies, including Maco / Efke IR:
http://www.blackandwhiteslide.com/macoir.html

cheers,
Gavin

 

[Aurum]

Ilford have a sheet about reversal processing some of the Traditional films they make (FP4) PDF here

I haven't tried it out yet, as I have to assemble all the chemicals, but in theory it should work with SFX.

As above, if you want to just try it out, and don't want to set yourself for the whole process, there are several processing houses out there that will do reversal for you, DR5 being one of the more well known especially in the US.

 

[Contrastique]

Thanx for your comments everyone. I was really asking about colour slide ir in particular though but I guess I have my answer now...there's nothing out there anymore too bad as it looks really cool. Guess photoshop is the only way to go now to get a somewhat similar result...sigh...

 

[benjiboy]

I have never used it, but I once read that infra- red slide film was originally developed by Kodak for the US Forestry Service to take aerial shots of forests, because with it they can see by the colour it produces if trees are alive or dead.

 

[pwitkop]

Perhaps someone with a history at Kodak can confirm (or tell me I've got it wrong), we were told in my sci/technical photo class it was originally developed for areal recon during WWII; foliage was bright magenta, and non-foliage (comouflaged troops, etc) would not be, the color versions being easier to read than black and white. I'm sure the Forest Service, and anyone else with interest in forestry, has made great use of them though.

Peter

 

[benjiboy]

That's very interesting pwitcop, I think way back it was called KodakAero Ektachrome, if my memory serves me well

 

[pwitkop]

Come to think of it, I recall a little while ago (last week or so) there was an ebay seller with kodak IR film that he claimed was cut from rolls of areal film. I wonder if the areal film he's working with is just old stock or could it possibly still be available?

And Ben, we both may be correct in our understanding; even if IR films were originally developed during the war, I'm sure there was a lot of later development for civilian uses like forestry. Which they certainly did, updating the films to E6, etc. which was all after the war.

Peter

 

[tim_walls]

Thanx for your comments everyone. I was really asking about colour slide ir in particular though but I guess I have my answer now...there's nothing out there anymore too bad as it looks really cool. Guess photoshop is the only way to go now to get a somewhat similar result...sigh...

Photoshop won't really get you a similar result on its own, but I suppose you could try using coloured filters!

(As in, if your scene is entirely static, use a film like SFX200 and take three shots, one with an IR filter, one with a blue filter and one with a green. Then expose each of the negatives onto colour paper through corresponding filters (good luck with registration of the three layers on that.))

(Of course, that last bit could be replaced by 'scan the three negs, and use each as a separate layer in Photoshop, colour the layers and then overlay them', but we're not allowed to talk about that...)


Look up the datasheet for EIR to work out what filters to use - I can't remember off the top of my head which bits of the captured spectrum map to which dye colours, but I do remember it's in the datasheet so you can use that to work out what filters to use etc.

 

[accozzaglia]

EIR and Aerochrome III: similar? same? other?

Come to think of it, I recall a little while ago (last week or so) there was an ebay seller with kodak IR film that he claimed was cut from rolls of areal film. I wonder if the areal film he's working with is just old stock or could it possibly still be available?

And Ben, we both may be correct in our understanding; even if IR films were originally developed during the war, I'm sure there was a lot of later development for civilian uses like forestry. Which they certainly did, updating the films to E6, etc. which was all after the war.

Peter

I believe one can still obtain this stock via B&H in the U.S. as a non-returnable special order item. It comes in, I think, non-perforated rolls of 400 feet and 200 feet at 9.5" width. It's called Aerochrome III Infrared Film 1443, and from the looks of it, its composition is very similar to EIR, if not the exact same stuff (like EIR, it's on an estar base with one emulsion layer sensitized to infrared wavelengths). Apparently, there is/was another stock called SO-734, which does not appear on the B&H web site and may no longer be produced. SO-734 apparently has/had greater sensitivity to IR wavelengths (possibly longer wavelengths one might expect from HIE, which is sensitive to at least 900nm).

Of course, such stock is of little utility to 35mm, medium or large format applications without another party arranging to cut down one of these rolls to size. I'd totally be for finding someone willing to cut a spool (down to 120, 4x5 or 8x10, knowing that perforation for 135 might be another step atop merely cutting it down) and buying from them. I have 5 135 rolls of EIR in deep freeze and feel like I have to "conserve" them for anything beyond the planned uses I have already for them. It would be wonderful to have this offered for a limited time in other formats. Shooting in medium or large would be a very interesting twist to the bulk of work others have put out on 135 stock.

 

[AutumnJazz]

I would be in for like 10 rolls of 135 if someone cut that down.

Damn...$4k...

 

[tim_walls]

I believe one can still obtain this stock via B&H in the U.S. as a non-returnable special order item. It comes in, I think, non-perforated rolls of 400 feet and 200 feet at 9.5" width. It's called Aerochrome III Infrared Film 1443, and from the looks of it, its composition is very similar to EIR, if not the exact same stuff (like EIR, it's on an estar base with one emulsion layer sensitized to infrared wavelengths). Apparently, there is/was another stock called SO-734, which does not appear on the B&H web site and may no longer be produced. SO-734 apparently has/had greater sensitivity to IR wavelengths (possibly longer wavelengths one might expect from HIE, which is sensitive to at least 900nm).

Of course, such stock is of little utility to 35mm, medium or large format applications without another party arranging to cut down one of these rolls to size. I'd totally be for finding someone willing to cut a spool (down to 120, 4x5 or 8x10, knowing that perforation for 135 might be another step atop merely cutting it down) and buying from them.

I'd definitely be in for some of that in 4x5 or 120.

(Edit: Mind you, it says it's designed for process 'AR-5' - anyone know if it'd still be OK dev'd in E6?)

(Edit again: Just checked one of the rolls of EIR in the freezer, and note that also says 'Process AR-5 or E-6', so presumably there's a good chance this stuff would be OK in E6 too.)

I have 5 135 rolls of EIR in deep freeze and feel like I have to "conserve" them for anything beyond the planned uses I have already for them.

Same here - I have a couple of rolls of EIR in the freezer that on the one hand I don't dare use, and on the other know I'm going to have to sooner or later before it fogs...

 

[accozzaglia]

I know APUG has a resident engineer and a resident lab tech interested in launching a K-Lab for 120 as well as 135, but have we a resident film cutter in da haus?

 

[AutumnJazz]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Kodak-EIR-Color...oryZ4204QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Someone is cutting it down...

 

[keithwms]

I have a bulk 5" roll of EIR, or the aerial version. Haven't had a chance to do anything with it. I have no clue whether it's still any good, it's been in a freezer for ages (many years). The container has a small crack, and I don't know whether any resulting light leak might have spoiled the whole thing.

Anyway, bear in mind Kodak's comments regarding the stability of this film. Compared to HIE (already a rather problematic product), their verbiage is even more worrisome. I have no expectations from this particular roll.

I'll say more once I've actually had a chance to try some.

 

[AutumnJazz]

Do you mean 5-foot?

 

[keithwms]

No, it's 5" x 500ft.

 

[AutumnJazz]

I asked the person on ebay.

"Hi,
Thanks for your question.
Yes, we buy fresh film from Kodak and cut it down ourselves.

Thanks,
dB"

I'm going to ask them if they'll do bulk orders of it. Anyone want some 8x10 or APS? lol

Edit: He got back to me. 4x5 is $20 each, but he only has 7 left right now. He has cut mainly 120 for himself, and to sell. I directed him to this thread, but he said he had garnered a negative response from APUG in the past.