Information on Shen Hao 8x10 field camera...

noseoil said:

"and all metal hardware on it is titanium".... fc

According to the marketing hype, this is also true of the Shen Hao in 4x5, mine is black painted brass. Mine is certainly a good camera in 4x5 and I have no complaints about it in fit and finish. The short bellows draw seems to be the only drawback with the Shen Hao 8x10. I would ask Jeff to place one on a scale, to make sure the weight is as advertised.
best, tim

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Tim- I'm not aware of them pitching the 4x5 as titanium hardware. If they are doing so now, they did not do it at the time I bought mine. If it were, why would they paint it black in the first place? The 5x7 and 8x10 models have all their hardware in bright metal, unpainted. At the very least, it's aluminum on the larger models, so it is lighter weight.

Although I haven't weighed the 4x5, I would believe it to be the six pounds they claim for it, as it weighs about the same as my Canham 5x7, which is stated by Keith to weigh about six pounds, and I have no reason to doubt his specs.

Dear Ryan,
I have bought my ShenHao 4x5 from this seller. They sent it to France with no problem. I thinck he is a good seller. For the camera, it's an other story. When you buy a cheap camera, it is really a cheap camera. I had to completly disassemble mine to correct the paralellism and align the zero positions. Now it works ! I do not regret to bought it but the next one will be a real camera : Canham, Walker, Ebony.

My understanding on the HZX45A-II is that it is stainless steel for most metal. The exception might be the back standard mount that is unfinished metal, though it looks like a stick of titanium that I have in the garage . . . so my guess would be that might be the only titanium. Quite likely the materials specifications might change during production. I have no idea if all these were Teak, especially when I read about some HZX45A-II owners stating their cameras are Walnut.

I think it would take someone in the future to do a survey of Shen-Hao owners to figure out what changes occured through which serial numbers. It might be interesting. There are pictures of the 4x5 cameras that show unfinished metal on all parts, all black coated, and a mix. Other images show a light finished wood, some darker, and some in between. the other oddity I have seen is the red bellows version.

Anyway, I have been using an HZX45A-II since January 2006, and I have been very happy with the quality and movements. I don't know if I would buy another one, since I might be tempted to try out an Argentum. However, I don't see ever selling my HZX45A-II.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
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Ryan McIntosh said:

The Masterview is a great camera, but I would prefer something newer and not so heavy.

The Canham is the same price as the Phillips, but I've not heard or seen much about it. I've had friends who purchased the woodfield and were not satified because the camera was not sturdy enough for them.

I was originally going to get a Wehman, but I seem to be drifting away from it now for a few reasons. Probably the first is aesthetics. Bruce has a fantastic designed camera, but I feel it's still in the development process and he is still working on making it better each year. Looks are not that important, but I feel the camera is not very attractive looking.

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I will tell you straight up that there are always going to be trade offs in life and LF cameras are at the peak of the pile. Yes, there are folks that "feel" that the Canham is not as rigid as they would like, but I have never heard anyone tell me that rigidity was the root cause of a photographic failure while using this camera. Most of the time it is just their perception of the issue that becomes their own reality and it is simply not true. It is a precision finely crafted 9# modular field camera. I have used my Canham 8x10 for three years continuously and my metal Canham 5x7 (same untrue claims) for nearly five years without a hitch. Complete bunch of bunk. Being over fixated on one of the many variables that goes into the design and manufacture of a LF camera without looking at the objective of its designer is both miopic and highly suspect.

What the Canham wood 8x10 has: Independent tightening knobs for front rise and front tilt that operate independently. You can simply reach forward under the ground glass and make your tilt while watching the ground glass. It also uses through bolts throughout the camera so you never have to worry about high pitch wood screws coming loose on you like they use in Deardorfs and many others. Modular design allowing you to add a format to your camera base in less than 45 seconds. I go from 8x10 to 8x20 with the same camera base and front standard. No other camera offers this marvelous feature. It also has ingenious progressive ground glass back tightening springs that are easy to get a film holder into but hold like the dickens.

I agree that the Kodak Master is heavy and when I owned one I was worried about service and parts.

At the end of the day you get what you pay for. If you want a camera that will last you for the rest of your shooting life it better be light, durable, have long bellows and feel comfortable in your hands and quality costs and there is no way around it. The Wehman fit its billing of allowing more people to experience 8x10 but it not a precision instrument. I have to say the same thing about the Shen Hao. Ebony makes nice cameras but the price will choke a horse. Phillips makes nice cameras but last I looked the bellows length was an issue. Maybe Dick has resolved this concern.

If I were you I would get behind a Canham and make some photographs. The metal camera operates off of a center rail and from simply an engineering perspective, I like the rails on the side as in his wooden camera because it spreads out the support members and is smoother.

My Toyo 810M is another marvelous camera that is solid as set concrete but it is nearly 5# heavier than the Canham. As a result the Canham goes with me the majority of the time because I can carry three more film holders than with the Toyo in my pack for the same net weight.

My attitude is if it is worth doing, bring your best game with you.

Cheers!

Canham Redux

Michael I just want to add my own two cents here about the Canham. I purchased mine new and had it for about three years. I was never happy with the camera. It was way to slip slidy for me-although I firmly believe someone like Richard Ritter could have remedied that situation. I will affirm wholeheartedly that Mr. Canham provides a GREAT service and is wonderful to deal with. He fixed my front standard for free after my loading a 12LB lens on the front!! I was very happy the day I sold it although I lost about $1500 on the transaction. Now I have an Ansco View 8x10 that I love. And yes it's a little catankerous at times but it has a lot more feel to it. I got it off Epay for $525 in mint condition and then found myself a nice case for it. I'm with you though in that you get what you pay for and a camera is just a box. I made some of my best pictures with cameras that had few movements and no modern features.
Just to add I have a really nice hard shell (suitcase type) case that fits the 8x10 Canham if anyone is interested. I'll give someone a great deal. Just shoot me a PM
Best, Peter

There you go Ryan, two different people have two points of view. Not right or wrong, just different. It sounds like you might want to talk to Keith and see what his stuff looks like. Since he's a local guy, you have nothing to lose. I've seen your work and I still think bed extension is a major concern for you. Don't limit yourself by getting a short bellows. Best, tim

http://www.canhamcameras.com/
1.480.250.3990
2038 E. Downing St.
Mesa, AZ 85213
USA

P.S. Open house Christmas day if you're in town. After 1:00pm

Peter Schrager said:

Michael I just want to add my own two cents here about the Canham. I purchased mine new and had it for about three years. I was never happy with the camera. It was way to slip slidy for me-although I firmly believe someone like Richard Ritter could have remedied that situation. I will affirm wholeheartedly that Mr. Canham provides a GREAT service and is wonderful to deal with. He fixed my front standard for free after my loading a 12LB lens on the front!! I was very happy the day I sold it although I lost about $1500 on the transaction. Now I have an Ansco View 8x10 that I love. And yes it's a little catankerous at times but it has a lot more feel to it. I got it off Epay for $525 in mint condition and then found myself a nice case for it. I'm with you though in that you get what you pay for and a camera is just a box. I made some of my best pictures with cameras that had few movements and no modern features.

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I believe that anyone that provides service like Keith Canham would be more than happy to work with anyone concerning any issues you might have with one of his cameras including a full refund. When I got my 8x20 back from Keith there was a problem with the tension of the springs in the back of the camera. He described how sometimes the springs tighten up during shipping and gave me the allen wrench sizes to allow me to make the adjustment. When I purchased my 8x10 Canham wood camera used (nearly new) I called him as well and he described to me how to tighten up the groove rail back that appeared a bit on the loose side. Now I have a full set of allen wrenches just in case something needs a tweek.

At the end of the day each of us has to find something that works for our needs. Hope you sold or gave away that 12# lens. Good grief!

Considering that Ryan photographs full time I feel that he will be the exception to the rule in the fact that he will be needing every feature one could possible ask for. Ditto about heading over to his shop and seeing first hand the line of cameras since you are neighbors. He may even let you expose a few negatives to get the feel for the camera.

Cheers!

Thanks everyone.

I'm going to make it up to Phoenix this weekend to meet with Keith and see a Canham for myself, both metal and wood. Also, I will be meeting with the fellow who has a Phillips Compact II that he is selling. I've really decided it will be one or the other and just going to push the ShenHao and Wehman aside. Cameras such as the Ebony are great, but just WAY out of my budget.

I find the bellows on my Cambo are often nearly completely out (30") if I'm using longer lenses (19", 24") or when I'm even using wide lenses (90mm, 210mm) for close up work. The long bellows are surly needed, so I'm going to try out the Phillips with my longest lens first, to see how that works out.

Tim- Thanks for the invite on Christmas but I am heading over to CA to photograph. We will have to get together at some point next year.

Michael- Thanks again for the beautiful Artar! It's absolutly wonderful.

All the best,

Ryan MCIntosh
www.RyanMcIntosh.net

Sounds like a good plan Ryan. I`m guessing you`ll end up with a Canham, as you need that bellows extention..

Ryan McIntosh said:

...I find the bellows on my Cambo are often nearly completely out (30") if I'm using longer lenses (19", 24") or when I'm even using wide lenses (90mm, 210mm) for close up work. The long bellows are surly needed, so I'm going to try out the Phillips with my longest lens first, to see how that works out...

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Much as I like my Compact II, and even if there's been slight variation during Dick's production of that model, I don't think the 26-1/4-inch bellows length will satisfy your stated needs.

I understand you have bought a Compact II Ryan, give us you first impression of it!

Thats right! I decided to go ahead and purchase the Phillips Compact II 8x10 camera and really could not be more pleased with the purchase!

I checked out many cameras before making this purchase, including a metal field Canham, Ebony (non folding) and a few others, but Phillips topped all of them. All the other cameras I looked at had several things that I disliked and would not have been good for how I shoot.

The simplistly of the camera is outstanding, making it very fast to set up and take down. However, it has all the features you would want in any other camera, plus some extra features that other cameras don't have.

When the camera is full extended, there is ZERO flex in both the rear and front standard. With just a light twist of the knobs, everything locks down very solid. The design of the front focus by using the knob in the rear is a gear idea and is alot easier than having to reach out front to focus.

The camera has 26 1/2" bellows, however I can tilt then rear standard back and get abit more extention. They are long enough to use the 24" Artar and be able to focus about 20 feet away, more or less.

I have yet to make any negatives yet because I need a few more Sinar lensboards. This is surly a camera that I will enjoy using for MANY years to come. The quality and craftsmanship of the camera is outstanding and surly built to last.

If anyone has any questions about this beautiful camera, please go ahead and ask.

All the best,

Ryan McIntosh
www.RyanMcIntosh.net

Sounds great Ryan, congratulations.
While I`m perfectly happy with my Wehman, I`d love to have an Explorer II

Ryan McIntosh said:

Thats right! I decided to go ahead and purchase the Phillips Compact II 8x10 camera and really could not be more pleased with the purchase!

I checked out many cameras before making this purchase, including a metal field Canham, Ebony (non folding) and a few others, but Phillips topped all of them. All the other cameras I looked at had several things that I disliked and would not have been good for how I shoot.

The simplistly of the camera is outstanding, making it very fast to set up and take down. However, it has all the features you would want in any other camera, plus some extra features that other cameras don't have.

When the camera is full extended, there is ZERO flex in both the rear and front standard. With just a light twist of the knobs, everything locks down very solid. The design of the front focus by using the knob in the rear is a gear idea and is alot easier than having to reach out front to focus.

The camera has 26 1/2" bellows, however I can tilt then rear standard back and get abit more extention. They are long enough to use the 24" Artar and be able to focus about 20 feet away, more or less.

I have yet to make any negatives yet because I need a few more Sinar lensboards. This is surly a camera that I will enjoy using for MANY years to come. The quality and craftsmanship of the camera is outstanding and surly built to last.

If anyone has any questions about this beautiful camera, please go ahead and ask.

All the best,

Ryan McIntosh
www.RyanMcIntosh.net

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At the end of the day we all make our decisions based upon what works for each of us since we all see and shoot differently. I am glad that your have arrive at the end of your journey and are happy.

I personally would not be satisfied with such short bellows as I have more than 24" with my Canham 5x7 and 36+ inches with the 8x10/8x20 wooden Canham. With the larger camera I can reach for a 30" lens and that is a very nice feeling to have this flexibility when you need it. I use longer lenses now more often than I ever thought I would. In the arena of compromise I can readily deal with a bit of elasticity in the rear standard to have this capability.

Onward!

"Thats right! I decided to go ahead and purchase the Phillips Compact II 8x10 camera and really could not be more pleased with the purchase!"
I ask you in 3 years how happy you are!
Its to soon to say a statemant like it above!
The bellows will be to short on the long run for you, just my 2 cents!
Happy holidays Armin

Ryan I admire your positive attitude, but remember that for everything you want last for life you have to be annoying once or two of it, than maybe you will respect it for the rest of your life.
Shan Hao 8x10 field is not so bad and I think for my experience the difference with Philips is not so huge........

Now that I look at the pictures of the Shen Hao, and compare it to the design of the Phillips, they are really quite similar. The Phillips has more little features that the Shen Hao does not, however the Shen Hao seems to have taken the Phillips design and improved on a few things like the hindges on the bottom of the rear standard.

One big advantage of the Phillips is the laminated wood over the raw finished wood of the Shen Hao. The laminated wood is very tough and scratch resistant, where the Shen Hao could get worn quicker.

Maybe at some point in the future I will purchased a Shen Hao and do a good test on both cameras and see which is better.

In regards to the bellows extention, my Cambo had 30" of bellows, so 26 1/2" is not THAT much shorter. I don't believe it will be much a problem, but if it is...I don't think there will be much a problem selling it for what I paid!

Ryan McIntosh
www.RyanMcIntosh.net