Info on Tintype please

I like to give this process try and need some starter info.Who can lead me into the right direction?Here is what I've got already:
1.easy access to a well-equipped darkroom and typical chemicals.
2.several 4x5 cameras and several plastic film holders.
3. lenses with focal lengths ranging from 90-210mm.
what else do I need to get started?

Dry plate or wet plate?

bvy said:

Dry plate or wet plate?

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your question exposes my ignorance.Whichever is easier to start with.

the wet one is less finicky, and there are more people doing it so if you have questions
there is a reservoir of experienced people you can tap into.
dry is fun, but the dry plate reversal developer can be finicky and difficult to deal with.

if you in germany, unless you mix DonF's approximated concoction of what he believes
the rockland developer is ( he might be right, he might be wrong, its a secret unpublished recipe )
a gallon costs like $20-30 / gallon ( plus shipping ) there are other reversal recipes
in the darkroom cookbook too, but i am not sure how well they work.

.. the UPside of the dry plate is it is just silver gelatin emulsion and a reversal developer
no real "start up costs" like a silver bath box, collodion to pour ( although you do have to get the
emulsion on the black metal or glass or black paper somehow ) .

the finicky part is why most people give up and go straight to wet plate, the dry plate version can be really frustrating.

Plenty of literature on wet plate collodion online (try this for starters), as its the process most people practice. Its not an especially difficult process unless you have dexterity challenges; the technique requires you become very skilled at manipulating the syrupy collodion on glass to get a thin, even coat. That can be challenging for some. Its a beautiful process and I have become quite smitten with it. I suggest you read up on the technique and perhaps look at some of the youtube videos to get an idea what you're going to have to learn. As any of the practitioners I know will tell you, its best to find someone to show you how to do it, either in a workshop or from a skilled friend. You really would benefit from having someone teach you in person.
If you decide to pursue wet plate image making, Mark Osterman's book "Basic Wet Plate Technique" is an excellent starting manual, and John Coffer's "Doer's Guide" is also excellent, providing lots of information beyond the basics.
Feel free to ask if you have other questions!
Paul

paulbarden said:

Plenty of literature on wet plate collodion online (try this for starters), as its the process most people practice. Its not an especially difficult process unless you have dexterity challenges; the technique requires you become very skilled at manipulating the syrupy collodion on glass to get a thin, even coat. That can be challenging for some. Its a beautiful process and I have become quite smitten with it. I suggest you read up on the technique and perhaps look at some of the youtube videos to get an idea what you're going to have to learn. As any of the practitioners I know will tell you, its best to find someone to show you how to do it, either in a workshop or from a skilled friend. You really would benefit from having someone teach you in person.
If you decide to pursue wet plate image making, Mark Osterman's book "Basic Wet Plate Technique" is an excellent starting manual, and John Coffer's "Doer's Guide" is also excellent, providing lots of information beyond the basics.
Feel free to ask if you have other questions!
Paul

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Think,I'll pass; this sounds too involved for a retiree.

paulbarden said:

Plenty of literature on wet plate collodion online (try this for starters), as its the process most people practice. Its not an especially difficult process unless you have dexterity challenges; the technique requires you become very skilled at manipulating the syrupy collodion on glass to get a thin, even coat. That can be challenging for some. Its a beautiful process and I have become quite smitten with it. I suggest you read up on the technique and perhaps look at some of the youtube videos to get an idea what you're going to have to learn. As any of the practitioners I know will tell you, its best to find someone to show you how to do it, either in a workshop or from a skilled friend. You really would benefit from having someone teach you in person.
If you decide to pursue wet plate image making, Mark Osterman's book "Basic Wet Plate Technique" is an excellent starting manual, and John Coffer's "Doer's Guide" is also excellent, providing lots of information beyond the basics.
Feel free to ask if you have other questions!
Paul

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are the "starter kits" sold through bostick and sullivan and other supply houses a good way to get into it? do they provide the silver bath box &c ?

jnanian said:

are the "starter kits" sold through bostick and sullivan and other supply houses a good way to get into it? do they provide the silver bath box &c ?

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Absolutely a great way to get started, yes! Last June I bought the large starter kit from B&S (Dana is very helpful if you have questions!) and it is a very complete kit, minus the silver bath box which you have to source separately. Including a silver bath box would add at least another $170 to the price of the kit, so I understand why they omit that item. There’s absolutely no reason you can’t use a clean (new, dedicated) plastic darkroom tray as a silver bath, as long as you follow protocol (no exposing the silver bath to white light once it’s been used to sensitize a plate).

Brian at UV Photographics also sells an excellent starter kit, but his kit omits a few items that B&S includes, such as a hydrometer (you’ll need one for maintaining the silver bath), safety glasses, pH test strips, plastic funnel, calcium carbonate glass cleaner (which you’ll need if you’re making ambrotypes or glass negatives), so if you choose the UV Photographics kit, you’ll probably end up sourcing some of these items elsewhere. I do buy most of my materials from UVP these days, but I’m glad I started with B&S’s kit, definitely.

Also worth considering: Bostick & Sullivan only sells one recipe of Collodion, which is John Coffer’s “Old Workhorse”, whereas UVP offers several recipes, some of which are traditional formulas specifically for landscape or portraiture work, as well as a couple of Brian’s own “cadmium free” recipes, in case you’re hesitant to work with materials containing cadmium (a known carcinogen, but present in tiny amounts). That said, “Old Workhorse” is an excellent all-purpose collodion that can be used to make both positives (tintypes, ambrotypes) and negatives, so there’s no practical reason to avoid “Old Workhorse” as a beginner. In fact, if you intend on making negatives, “Old Workhorse” is probably the better formula to start with. You can experiment with different formulas later, once you’ve become familiar with the technique. (There’s a learning curve, to be sure!)

The B&S kit includes a concentrated developer that you dilute 1:3 for positives, or 1:5 for negatives, and its handy to have a 2-in-1 developer available (normally, you make separate developer recipes for each application). Also the B&S developer is formulated to be more restrained than traditional recipes, so during the learning phase, you have more like 45 seconds to develop the plate, whereas a traditional developer allows you only 10-15 seconds for full development. For a new practitioner, the short development time can be tricky, believe me.

Anyway, that’s likely way more info than you wanted, but may be useful, should you actually want to pursue the process. I highly recommend you do, John, since I know you like these hands-on processes. Im finding collodion work to be very rewarding and aesthetically unique. I also like the fact that, unlike film, there is no intermediate step which requires separate processes (darkroom printing of negatives) - the tintype/ambrotype plate is the finished piece, and you can achieve this from start to finish in 30 minutes (with luck)! Its kind of like Polaroids, 1851 style!

RalphLambrecht said:

Think,I'll pass; this sounds too involved for a retiree.

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Sorry to hear that, Ralph. In practice, it’s a very simple, quick process. It’s just that you’ll need to acquire some specific equipment, and learn a new technique. I don’t find it especially demanding or complicated. I would urge you to befriend someone who practices this technique and let you watch him/her work. Seeing it done in person might change your perception

Mark if you want to get up and running quickly to at least see if you like the characteristics of shooting plate, you are welcome to try my 4x5 dry plates. Ready to load in a plate holder and shoot. Tray develop them in your darkroom in HC-110, Rodinal, or whatever otherwise very similar to developing prints. You end up with a glass negative that you can then contact print or enlarge (if you have a 4x5 enlarger).

If you want to try your hand at making your own, I suggest digging through Denise Ross' "The Light Farm" which is my favorite source for dry plate info.

I expect Ralph would be challenged by the needs of the wet plate process - particularly the need for two-handed physical dexterity.
I know that with the limited dexterity in my right hand, I wouldn't be able to handle the requirements of the "pour".
I do enjoy watching others do it though!

MattKing said:

I expect Ralph would be challenged by the needs of the wet plate process - particularly the need for two-handed physical dexterity.
I know that with the limited dexterity in my right hand, I wouldn't be able to handle the requirements of the "pour".
I do enjoy watching others do it though!

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Fair enough. It does require considerable dexterity.

Nodda Duma said:

Mark if you want to get up and running quickly to at least see if you like the characteristics of shooting plate, you are welcome to try my 4x5 dry plates.

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Not a bad idea, but to be fair, silver gelatin dry plates are nothing like wet plate collodion, in terms of the process and skill set. No offense to Nodda, who makes great dry plate negatives!

paulbarden said:

Not a bad idea, but to be fair, silver gelatin dry plates are nothing like wet plate collodion, in terms of the process and skill set. No offense to Nodda, who makes great dry plate negatives!

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I guess it's my turn to be educated ... I only chimed in because of mention of dry plates ... but is there a dry tintype collodion process?

Nodda Duma said:

I guess it's my turn to be educated ... I only chimed in because of mention of dry plates ... but is there a dry tintype collodion process?

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hi nodda duma
there is a dry collodion processes
ive never done it, and haven't fiddled with collodion for a long while..
but here's a recipe and some info from the "bible"
http://albumen.conservation-us.org/library/monographs/monckh/chap12.html
its different / than either dry plates - silver gel, or wet plate ... different chemistry &c
some people in this thread have tried it and been successful too ...
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/dry-plate-collodion.44132/

thanks for yoru encouragement paul! one of these days

john

Thanks John, I will check it out! Always trying to learn new things.

-Jason

paulbarden said:

Sorry to hear that, Ralph. In practice, it’s a very simple, quick process. It’s just that you’ll need to acquire some specific equipment, and learn a new technique. I don’t find it especially demanding or complicated. I would urge you to befriend someone who practices this technique and let you watch him/her work. Seeing it done in person might change your perception

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I hear you but, since my stroke, I lost the use of my left hand and I'm afraid that I no longer have the dexterity required, which would only lead to a ton of frustration.

RalphLambrecht said:

I hear you but, since my stroke, I lost the use of my left hand and I'm afraid that I no longer have the dexterity required, which would only lead to a ton of frustration.

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I'm sorry to hear that. I was unaware of your hardships. :-(

paulbarden said:

I'm sorry to hear that. I was unaware of your hardships. :-(

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thanks for your thoughts; it could be worse;I can still make photographs andI have friends who help me in the darkroom.

Ralph there is a real deal group on Facebook, and I know you get there, too. Collodion wet plate is the correct process but others have a lot of fun with the dry gelatin plates. Search for "collodion bastards" (yeah that's what they call their group). I just follow along with interest.

ralph
if you can get the developer made the silver gelatin tintype might be a good route. the finicky nature
of the process makes it even more fun when it works ! you can free pour the gelatin on the plate like with wet plate but
you can also just coat the plate with it flat using a brush or other methods. i put small tiny 35mm sized plates in my k1000 and
shoot them 1 at a time ... they develop in a darkroom just like you would paper. and being in germany, you might get a better deal on
the foma emulsion than we get here in the states, you can use any emulsion you want, home made, rockland colloid's stuff as well as
anyone elses' .. the developer that reverses seems to be dektol with a couple of other additives
(donF's formula for the reversal developer is here >>> https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/rockland-colloid-should-i-bother.112558/ ( post #99 ) )
get those in germany you won't have to deal with getting it shipped ... i'm doing my best to figure out a way to coat it on pre-exposed / processed blackened paper
to cut down on the expense of metal or glass. i've put it on a variety of black papers but the chemistry leeches out the black dye ... and re - coating emulsion i coat myself
doesn't work well either

PS: you can coat the plates or glass, and enlarge on them if you want, and print the images on these surfaces
without having to deal with reversals &c .. that's how i started my love affair with liquid emulsion by coating huge pieces
of glass and making 11x14+ glass internegatives and glass prints from enlarging on them. you can still put the glass or metal
in your camera and if you develop "normally" you'll just get a negative ( sometimes graphic negative images blow away their postiive partner )

Of course Nodda Duma’s dry plates are glass. Maybe experimenting with glass plates will satisfy the urge to try something old. I, for one, would be intrigued by a totally flat image plane with no dimensional distortion.

jnanian said:

ralph
if you can get the developer made the silver gelatin tintype might be a good route. the finicky nature
of the process makes it even more fun when it works ! you can free pour the gelatin on the plate like with wet plate but
you can also just coat the plate with it flat using a brush or other methods. i put small tiny 35mm sized plates in my k1000 and
shoot them 1 at a time ... they develop in a darkroom just like you would paper. and being in germany, you might get a better deal on
the foma emulsion than we get here in the states, you can use any emulsion you want, home made, rockland colloid's stuff as well as
anyone elses' .. the developer that reverses seems to be dektol with a couple of other additives
(donF's formula for the reversal developer is here >>> https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/rockland-colloid-should-i-bother.112558/ ( post #99 ) )
get those in germany you won't have to deal with getting it shipped ... i'm doing my best to figure out a way to coat it on pre-exposed / processed blackened paper
to cut down on the expense of metal or glass. i've put it on a variety of black papers but the chemistry leeches out the black dye ... and re - coating emulsion i coat myself
doesn't work well either

PS: you can coat the plates or glass, and enlarge on them if you want, and print the images on these surfaces
without having to deal with reversals &c .. that's how i started my love affair with liquid emulsion by coating huge pieces
of glass and making 11x14+ glass internegatives and glass prints from enlarging on them. you can still put the glass or metal
in your camera and if you develop "normally" you'll just get a negative ( sometimes graphic negative images blow away their postiive partner )

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I have to give this another thought because, this sounds more practical for me

this is my first attempt to do it electronically

wow, that is pretty nice !
did you feed a black tin through your printer or
construct the image in PS and print it ?