Info on old largeformat camera with a 21cm heliar lens

voit · Jul 13, 2011

Hi my first post here, i recently purchased a large format camera on auction for a fair price. looked up the lens on the interweb but i couldnt find an exact value to it, its an Voigtländer Braunschweig Heliar 1:4,5 F=21 Cm No: 1040602.
I am not planing on selling it anytime soon just good to know.

It has no scratches or mold on it btw, in nice condition..

Any help would be much appreciated thank you in advance

btw here's a few pics on the actual camera. its a beauty

ww.bukowskismarket.com/items/238514/images/1

(just add a W at the beginning of the line, can't post links yet ...)

Barry S · Jul 13, 2011

The camera is gorgeous--it looks like a half-plate tailboard. I'd say your Heliar is probably worth around $250-$300. On the positive side, it's in beautiful condition. However, the lack of a modern shutter makes it somewhat less valuable. All in all, a nice find!

Ian Grant · Jul 13, 2011

Barry those shutters were made up until the early 1960's and are quite practical unlike Packard shutters as they have up to a 1/90th top speed, it would make a beneficial difference to the value.

It's a tailboard camera, probably German.

Ian

voit · Jul 13, 2011

Ok ty for your reply, i saw one a bit bigger a 30cm lens for 900 dollars maby it was a bit overpriced.

The shutter is made in England i repaired it the otherday, quite fun to do. No markings on the camera thou maby German like one said here.

Again thx for your replys , both of you : )

Barry S · Jul 13, 2011

Ian-- I share your love for roller blind shutters, but they're severely limited in comparison to modern leaf shutters and there's a big price difference between barreled and (leaf) shuttered lenses. Throwing in a good condition roller blind shutter might add another $50-80 to a lens sale. There's a stronger demand for barrel lenses that cover 8x10 and larger formats and soft focus lenses, but a short Heliar in a barrel is more difficult to use--and the value reflects that.

Voit--enjoy your camera. Did you get any film holders? I think it's kind of funny that the camera was listed as a "Sanderson & Hutter"--obviously transmuted from the Sanderson Shutter label. I wonder if Sanderson made roller blind shutters or they just re-badged the ubiquitous Thornton-Pickard shutters.

voit · Jul 13, 2011

Thx yeah i noticed that to "sanderson and hutter" a bit surprising since its the most regarded action house here in sweden.

But anyways the shutter is a "curtain" that runs up and down from one spool to another, or maby you didnt ask about that?

And no, no film holders unfortunately:/ i made one thou myself yet to try it out.

Any idea on when the camera was made?

Ian Grant · Jul 13, 2011

It's a Thornton Pickard shutter fitted the wrong way around not that it'd make any difference, Houghton's may well have put their own Sanderson "Brand name" badges on them. Looks like it was a Front mounted shutter, these have a fixed panel both sides, the Between=Lens shutters (TP's name) usually have an interchangeable lens panel.

It's definitely a German style "Reisekamera". They were still being made in Russia until quite recently by FDK, I'd guess most German production ceased in the late 1920's possibly early 30's as there was a faster move to 35mm and precision 120 film cameras than other countries.

However if German production mirrored the UK a few may have been made up to the early 60's but I've not come across any. The last major UK manufacturer making tailboard cameras, Watson, ceased trading around 1958, although Gandolfi could still make them and they ceased camera production this year.

One thing to remember was that the English style Tailboard cameras were all quite similar, many almost identical, and it was the same with the German Reisekamera's.

Ian

Ian Grant · Jul 13, 2011

Barry S said:
Ian-- I share your love for roller blind shutters, but they're severely limited in comparison to modern leaf shutters and there's a big price difference between barreled and (leaf) shuttered lenses. Throwing in a good condition roller blind shutter might add another $50-80 to a lens sale. There's a stronger demand for barrel lenses that cover 8x10 and larger formats and soft focus lenses, but a short Heliar in a barrel is more difficult to use--and the value reflects that.

I was really thinking of this particular Camera/Lens combination. If fact with both my British plate cameras I have brass lenses and TP shutters and also early Compur shuttered lenses, a 1913 165mm CZJ Tessar on a hlaf plate camera.

I suspect the issue with this particular Tailboard camera will be the film/plate holders. I've made a conversion plate for my Half plate camer that allows a modern 5x4 DDS to be used and a similar adaptor to fit a 6x7 Roll film back to my Quarter palte camera (both Houghton's). One advantage of these older cameras is the register is quite deep compared to modern holders, so it's relatively easy.

Ian

Marco B · Jul 13, 2011

voit said:
btw here's a few pics on the actual camera. its a beauty

ww.bukowskismarket.com/items/238514/images/1

(just add a W at the beginning of the line, can't post links yet ...)

Eh... did we ever have limitations on that? :confused: I didn't know it... Well, anyway, here it is:

http://www.bukowskismarket.com/items/238514/images/1

Beautiful camera by the way...

voit · Jul 13, 2011

A lot of information that's great just one more thing anybody happen to know the value of the whole camera as it is, maby i made a bargain or maby not :O

Ian Grant · Jul 14, 2011

I'm looking to buy a similar sized tailboard camera so have been watching prices, I also restore TP shutters.

My guess is the camera is worth 90-140 euro, that's the price tailboard cameras are selling for in the UK/Germany. Your's has been restored at some point judging by the finish.

The shutter's worth perhaps another 30 euro maybe 50 euro because it's larger than most TP shutters and so less common, that's if sold separately.

The lens is the reasonably desirable but it is 1935'ish and an uncoated barrel version. Prices fluctuate a lot with Heliars so I'd partially agree that it might sell for up to $300 as Brian suggests but I'd be more inclined to put it's value at 120-160 euro.

Those values are as separate items and based on what I've seen selling (and bid on) recently, as a whole package it could be bought for a little less.

Just to give you a fair comparison look at Lionel Hughes prices for quite good plate cameras.

Larger tailboard cameras are less common and quite sort after for Wet plate work, so can fetch significantly higher prices.

Ian

voit · Jul 14, 2011

ok thx for your reply much appreciated

voit · Jul 15, 2011

What do you mean with large? this one is quite big 12 inches tall, but i dont know maby thats a normal size?

I have to add it has not been refinished its just very good lighting on those photos it has an old finish with scratshes and marks by wear, looks very different in real life but still it has been handled very well.

voit · Jul 15, 2011

Oh nevermind thx

Info on old largeformat camera with a 21cm heliar lens

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