Infinity focus question - Landscape focus

Auroraua · Jun 10, 2015

This is a bit of a stupid question, but I thought that if you want the infinity to be in focus, you set your lens to infinity and set the infinity sign to the f stop you are using.
But, somehow my photos are not that sharp.
When you are photographing a landscape, how do you go about focusing?
Also how do you go about focusing if you are focusing on a stone, that is middle distance away.

MattKing · Jun 10, 2015

Auroraua said:
This is a bit of a stupid question, but I thought that if you want the infinity to be in focus, you set your lens to infinity and set the infinity sign to the f stop you are using.
But, somehow my photos are not that sharp.
When you are photographing a landscape, how do you go about focusing?
Also how do you go about focusing if you are focusing on a stone, that is middle distance away.

What do you mean "set the infinity sign to the f stop you are using" ?

LJH · Jun 11, 2015

DoF scale.

MattKing · Jun 11, 2015

LJH said:
DoF scale.

That had occurred to me, but I read the original post to mean that the OP wanted the most distant subject to be in focus, rather than wanting as much as possible of the scene to be in acceptable focus.

Auroraua · Jun 11, 2015

Both a Leica with a Summicron DR and a Hasselblad Planar 80/2.8.

Yes, that´s kind of what I meant, I thought that if
my meter says 1/125 and f/11 I would put the infinity mark at 11.
Which would mean that everything between x meter and infinity will be in focus.
In the above example between about 2 meters to infinity.

So if you decide a distant mountain or a hut (in example above) more than 30 meters away, would you focus through the camera, or can you actually use the DoF scale?
For landscapes, I would normally want as much as possible in focus.

My last roll was out of focus and I used the DoF scale to focus, but it was also very windy, on the Leica/Summicron I used 1/50 as shutter and on the Hasselblad 1/125 most of the time (it´s understandable 1/60 could be shaky).
I know these are two different questions, but I would like to know you people normally focus in landscapes in order to get as much as possible in focus.

LJH · Jun 11, 2015

Auroraua,

If you use the image that I posted and use the f11 that you mentioned, you should be able to have between approx. 1.8m/5' and infinity in (somewhat) focus. See the yellow lines.

Whenever I use this type of scale (or even when using DoF charts), I err on trying to have more room on each end that I require to have a buffer. These scales are not super accurate; more a guide than a rule.

Auroraua · Jun 11, 2015

That is what I did, but my pictures were not sharp. I wanted to know if I was doing something wrong by focusing this way.
But seems like not.
I think the culprit was then the wind and the images became windy blurry.

Europan · Jun 11, 2015

The reference mark for the distance ring scale is the center line. Set there, not to diaphragm ratios. 11 is actually f/11 or the ratio of diaphragm aperture diameter to focal length, and its actually not 11 but √128 which is 11.313708498984760390413509793678 and some. Please read up the iris stop story hereabout.

The double-sided diaphragm or iris or stop scale will only tell you approximately, as LJH points out, depth of (sharp) field.
What you enter with the subject is the so-called hyperfocal distance. Please read about that hereabout.

baachitraka · Jun 11, 2015

I normally set the infinity to 5.6 and shoot at f/11 to give 2 stops safety factor.

250swb · Jun 11, 2015

Auroraua said:
My last roll was out of focus and I used the DoF scale to focus, but it was also very windy, on the Leica/Summicron I used 1/50 as shutter and on the Hasselblad 1/125 most of the time (it´s understandable 1/60 could be shaky).
I know these are two different questions, but I would like to know you people normally focus in landscapes in order to get as much as possible in focus.

Well a tripod's going to help, but using the hyperfocal distance to focus is only using the principle of 'acceptable' sharpness, nothing in particular is in perfect sharp focus, but it's all 'more or less' in focus. So either buy a tripod to increase your hit rate, or decide on what is important in the picture and focus on that. But as a general rule of thumb you could try focusing on a tree or rock that is one third into the distance between you and whatever is furthest away (not necessarily infinity), then stop down all the way.

Steve

LJH · Jun 11, 2015

baachitraka said:
I normally set the infinity to 11 and shoot at f/5.6 to give 2 stops safety factor.

Wouldn't that reduce DoF?

georg16nik · Jun 11, 2015

Auroraua said:
Both a Leica with a Summicron DR and a Hasselblad Planar 80/2.8.

Yes, that´s kind of what I meant, I thought that if
my meter says 1/125 and f/11 I would put the infinity mark at 11.
Which would mean that everything between x meter and infinity will be in focus.
In the above example between about 2 meters to infinity.

So if you decide a distant mountain or a hut (in example above) more than 30 meters away, would you focus through the camera, or can you actually use the DoF scale?
For landscapes, I would normally want as much as possible in focus.

My last roll was out of focus and I used the DoF scale to focus, but it was also very windy, on the Leica/Summicron I used 1/50 as shutter and on the Hasselblad 1/125 most of the time (it´s understandable 1/60 could be shaky).
I know these are two different questions, but I would like to know you people normally focus in landscapes in order to get as much as possible in focus.

You need a safety margin when using the DoF scales, the international standard defines inner and outer borders of the DoF scale.
So, in your case /11 @ infinity will give you a blur of 1/1000th of the camera format diagonal, which means that the infinity mark should be positioned between /8 and /11 when you need critical sharpness.

baachitraka · Jun 11, 2015

LJH said:
Wouldn't that reduce DoF?

Yes, I missed it up. :-O It should be other way around.

ic-racer · Jun 11, 2015

Auroraua said:
This is a bit of a stupid question, but I thought that if you want the infinity to be in focus, you set your lens to infinity and set the infinity sign to the f stop you are using.
But, somehow my photos are not that sharp.
When you are photographing a landscape, how do you go about focusing?
Also how do you go about focusing if you are focusing on a stone, that is middle distance away.

The plane of focus is the only thing that is sharp. Put the plane of focus at infinity if you want distant objects sharp. Small details in the distance require the most resolution. Objects closer to the lens appear bigger on the film plane and don't require as much resolution for identification.

Make sure the lens is collimated and the film is held flat; infinity focus is very critical.

gone · Jun 11, 2015

You're going to have problems doing what you're doing. Just stop it down to f11 or f16, set the lens to the infinity stop, and shoot. If your meter says 1/125 at f11 that's simply the exposure setting, not the distance setting. You could just as easily set it to 1/250 at f8, or 1/60 at f16. Neither of which is related to distance. You always want the lens set at infinity for landscapes, and stopped down as much as the wind conditions will allow.

If its windy, you need a shutter speed of at least 1/125 and 1/250 is better. If its very still you can get by w/ slower speeds.

fotch · Jun 11, 2015

Auroraua said:
That is what I did, but my pictures were not sharp. I wanted to know if I was doing something wrong by focusing this way.
But seems like not.
I think the culprit was then the wind and the images became windy blurry.

Windy blurry? Tornado? A tripod, a good one, will eliminate, most of the time, camera shake. So, unless shooting at very high shutter speeds, is a good idea.

fotch · Jun 11, 2015

momus said:
You're going to have problems doing what you're doing. Just stop it down to f11 or f16, set the lens to the infinity stop, and shoot. If your meter says 1/125 at f11 that's simply the exposure setting, not the distance setting. You could just as easily set it to 1/250 at f8, or 1/60 at f16. Neither of which is related to distance. You always want the lens set at infinity for landscapes.

+1

RalphLambrecht · Jun 11, 2015

Auroraua said:
This is a bit of a stupid question, but I thought that if you want the infinity to be in focus, you set your lens to infinity and set the infinity sign to the f stop you are using.
But, somehow my photos are not that sharp.
When you are photographing a landscape, how do you go about focusing?
Also how do you go about focusing if you are focusing on a stone, that is middle distance away.

if you want infinity in focus,you have to focus on infinity;hyperfocal fcusing or DOF markings will leave infinity at the threshold of focus and not perfectly focused.

Jim Jones · Jun 11, 2015

Depth Of Field is a complex subject: DOF scales and charts are a drastic simplification. The DOF scales on most cameras are accurate enough for small prints or even posting snapshots online, but not for large wall-hanging prints or serious work. Baachitraka's corrected post #15 is the way many of us focus. For a little more detail, read http://www.trenholm.org/hmmerk/DOFR.html. There are other approaches to understanding DOF. Some of them are really complicated.

Jeff Bradford · Jun 11, 2015

Align infinity to the center mark.

RobC · Jun 11, 2015

Personally I just focus on whatever I want in sharpest focus whether that be something near or something far away.
The depth of field scale then tells me roughly what will be in focus either side of it at any particular f stop.

It doesn't need to be any more complicated than that.

As for hyperfocal distance, well if you really want to use it then you can but if you want something on the horizon to be as sharp as possibe then I wouldn't.

Vaughn · Jun 11, 2015

It is a rare photo that I make with the lens's focus set at infinity. One percent, perhaps. That is perhaps the percentage of my images of the 'grand landscape' (my term of landscape images without any foreground). Generally, if the foreground is out of fine focus, the whole image gives the feeling of being out of focus.

I focus on the closest foreground I want in focus, check the distance (for example 10'). Focus on the farthest in the background I want in focus (not always infinity) and check the distance (say 30'). I then turn the lens/whatever until 10' and 30' are at the same f/stop on the scale (say f/11) and then shoot at one or two stops closed down (f/16 or 22).

David Lyga · Jun 11, 2015

Just because your scale 'says' it is focused at infinity, that does not mean that the lens is actually focused on infinity. Your profile indicates '35 RF'. But this thread is in MF. Thus, I do not know what you are using. But whether SLR or RF, what the film says is in focus is what counts. I would test with wide aperture at slightly less than infinity, 'infinity', and, if possible, slightly 'further' than infinity. Then examine the negatives closely for the most accurate results. - David Lyga

wiltw · Jun 11, 2015

Auroraua said:
That is what I did, but my pictures were not sharp. I wanted to know if I was doing something wrong by focusing this way.
But seems like not.
I think the culprit was then the wind and the images became windy blurry.

The fundamental problem is that the DOF scale for most manufacturers assumes the viewer of the 8x10" photo, at a viewing distance of about 12", has worse visual acuity than reality. If you have f/8 on the lens set, then put the Infinity mark next to the f/8 mark on the DOF scale, the human eye WILL DETECT focus blur at objects at Infinity. That is one reason why very long time shooters will use the f/5.6 mark on the DOF scale, rather than f/8! Even that compensation of the DOF scale is optimistic, though!...

Using the photo in Post 6 as an example, it is 35mm lens, and at f/11 the DOF scale says about 5.75' - Infinity is 'in focus', and the focus scale is at 12' primary focus distance.

If we use a standard DOF program, it agrees that DOF is 5.88' - Infinity at f/11 when lens is focused at 12'.
If we use a DOF program that allows selection of 20/20 visual acuity for the viewer, it says that the DOF zone is actually from 8.9' - 18' with aperture at f/11.

Looking back to the photo in post 6, we see that 20/20 vision DOF of 8.9' - 18' is more similar to the lens DOF scale marks for f/2.8 and primary focus at 12' !

Sirius Glass · Jun 11, 2015

Since you have single lens reflexes get the focus you want on the focusing screen and then stop down to check the depth of field.

Infinity focus question - Landscape focus

Auroraua

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Vaughn

David Lyga

wiltw

Sirius Glass

Infinity focus question - Landscape focus

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