Inert Gas to top off chemicals -- suggestions?

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cschweda

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Does anyone have any specific suggestions for some sort of inert gas/air mixture to top off chemicals in bottles?

I've started C-41 processing and would like to fill the unused portions of the bottles with some sort of gas/air mixture for (moderate) preservation.

Is anyone using anything specific? Will the winesaver stuff work? Anything I'll want to avoid?
 

Kevin Caulfield

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Tetenal make a spray in a can called "Protectan" which is a mixture of propane and butane.

The winesaver stuff is probably also a propane/butane mixture.
 

Mike Wilde

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No sure where you are at - but in North America there is a wine related item, called Private Preserve. I believe it is mostly argon and nitrogen. I used it successfully before buying my own nitrogen cylinder and regulator.
 

tim_walls

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Does anyone have any specific suggestions for some sort of inert gas/air mixture to top off chemicals in bottles?

I've started C-41 processing and would like to fill the unused portions of the bottles with some sort of gas/air mixture for (moderate) preservation.

Is anyone using anything specific? Will the winesaver stuff work? Anything I'll want to avoid?
This has been discussed a few times before - there was one quite large thread recently you might want to search for.

If I remember rightly though, among the conclusions were -

  • Winesaver sometimes contains carbon dioxide; this may not be ideal because it could dissolve into the water forming carbonic acid, altering the solution pH (I hope I'm remembering this right.)
  • Nitrogen is an excellent option, and apparently readily available (at least stateside.)
  • In the UK at least, Argon is readily available in small cylinders from builders/tool merchants, thanks to its use in arc welding; the small cylinders seem to be usually sold as part of/for use with portable welding rigs.
 

RobertV

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Protectan (Tetenal) is indeed Butane and Argon and can be used on all type of bottles.

The winesaver (what I mean, Vacuvin) is this system to remove the air from the bottle and can be only used on small bottle types:

http://www.vacuvin.nl/Vacuum_Wine_Saver_215.html

Further you only have to protect developers from oxidizing.
 

Fotoguy20d

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Aren't there accordion bottles available which will compress down to the needed size?
Another way to take up the excess volume is glass marbles - cheap, reusable, inert.

Dan
 

RobertV

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Aren't there accordion bottles available which will compress down to the needed size?

The worst invention they ever made: Crap!

The whole surface area is so big that the developer is oxidized instead of protecting it.

Glass marbles an be a solution but in practice not so really handy.

Some bottles you can squeeze, that's also a practical thing.
Or refill to a smaller bottle.
 

srs5694

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An alternative is to use glass bottles and pull a (partial) vacuum in them to reduce oxygen content. I use something called the Pump-N-Seal for this purpose. A similar item is the VacuVin. They differ in details: Pump-N-Seal uses a glass bottle's original metal cap with a hole punched in it and a sealing tab; VacuVin uses its own special stopper, which is designed for wine bottles.

I don't know how good of a vacuum either product can produce, but I do know that my developers darken much more slowly when I use my Pump-N-Seal than before I got it, so I'd say it's effective.
 

walter23

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Does anyone have any specific suggestions for some sort of inert gas/air mixture to top off chemicals in bottles?

I've started C-41 processing and would like to fill the unused portions of the bottles with some sort of gas/air mixture for (moderate) preservation.

Is anyone using anything specific? Will the winesaver stuff work? Anything I'll want to avoid?


Nitrogen should be fine.
 

Dug

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Buy a butane lighter refill canister and give it a little squirt into the bottle. Cheap, easy, readily available. (Standard disclaimer about doing this around open flame, etc.)
 

amuderick

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Canned air works well. People may disagree on this forum but my real-world experience says otherwise. Just the standard 'Dust-Off' or other brand. It is difluoroethane. Pretty inert. My E-6 kits first developer and color developers are at least 6 months old now. They are opened and closed a few rolls at a time and the air is topped off with the Dust Off. The developer color has not turned.

The previous poster's suggestion is good too. Butane should work well.
 

fschifano

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Buy a butane lighter refill canister and give it a little squirt into the bottle. Cheap, easy, readily available. (Standard disclaimer about doing this around open flame, etc.)

Well, I'm cheap and I already have a soldering torch that uses propane so I use that. Can't get Protectan in the US any more, or at least I haven't seen it for sale anywhere lately, and I'm sure as heck not going to spend $12 for a little dipshit can of that stuff when I can get a much larger cylinder of propane for $3 US.
 
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Would helium be useful in this situation? huge tanks of it for filling balloons are pretty cheap.
 

Thomas Wilson

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Helium is inert, but it is also much lighter than air. You will have to be pretty quick getting the cap back on!
 

Bob F.

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If in Europe, small(ish) disposable argon canisters are readily available at places that sell welding gear - unlike helium, argon is heavier than oxygen/air. I understand from other threads here that these are not available in the US.
 
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