Inert Gas to top off chemicals -- suggestions?

cschweda · May 11, 2009

Does anyone have any specific suggestions for some sort of inert gas/air mixture to top off chemicals in bottles?

I've started C-41 processing and would like to fill the unused portions of the bottles with some sort of gas/air mixture for (moderate) preservation.

Is anyone using anything specific? Will the winesaver stuff work? Anything I'll want to avoid?

Kevin Caulfield · May 11, 2009

Tetenal make a spray in a can called "Protectan" which is a mixture of propane and butane.

The winesaver stuff is probably also a propane/butane mixture.

Mike Wilde · May 11, 2009

No sure where you are at - but in North America there is a wine related item, called Private Preserve. I believe it is mostly argon and nitrogen. I used it successfully before buying my own nitrogen cylinder and regulator.

tim_walls · May 11, 2009

cschweda said:
Does anyone have any specific suggestions for some sort of inert gas/air mixture to top off chemicals in bottles?

I've started C-41 processing and would like to fill the unused portions of the bottles with some sort of gas/air mixture for (moderate) preservation.

Is anyone using anything specific? Will the winesaver stuff work? Anything I'll want to avoid?

This has been discussed a few times before - there was one quite large thread recently you might want to search for.

If I remember rightly though, among the conclusions were -

Winesaver sometimes contains carbon dioxide; this may not be ideal because it could dissolve into the water forming carbonic acid, altering the solution pH (I hope I'm remembering this right.)
Nitrogen is an excellent option, and apparently readily available (at least stateside.)
In the UK at least, Argon is readily available in small cylinders from builders/tool merchants, thanks to its use in arc welding; the small cylinders seem to be usually sold as part of/for use with portable welding rigs.

RobertV · May 11, 2009

Protectan (Tetenal) is indeed Butane and Argon and can be used on all type of bottles.

The winesaver (what I mean, Vacuvin) is this system to remove the air from the bottle and can be only used on small bottle types:

http://www.vacuvin.nl/Vacuum_Wine_Saver_215.html

Further you only have to protect developers from oxidizing.

Fotoguy20d · May 11, 2009

Aren't there accordion bottles available which will compress down to the needed size?
Another way to take up the excess volume is glass marbles - cheap, reusable, inert.

Dan

RobertV · May 11, 2009

Aren't there accordion bottles available which will compress down to the needed size?

The worst invention they ever made: Crap!

The whole surface area is so big that the developer is oxidized instead of protecting it.

Glass marbles an be a solution but in practice not so really handy.

Some bottles you can squeeze, that's also a practical thing.
Or refill to a smaller bottle.

RobertV · May 11, 2009

Maybe interesting to give my own 41 years photo film experiences:

1) Protectan
2) Vacuvin
3) Sqeeze the bottle
4) Refill to a smaller one

srs5694 · May 11, 2009

An alternative is to use glass bottles and pull a (partial) vacuum in them to reduce oxygen content. I use something called the Pump-N-Seal for this purpose. A similar item is the VacuVin. They differ in details: Pump-N-Seal uses a glass bottle's original metal cap with a hole punched in it and a sealing tab; VacuVin uses its own special stopper, which is designed for wine bottles.

I don't know how good of a vacuum either product can produce, but I do know that my developers darken much more slowly when I use my Pump-N-Seal than before I got it, so I'd say it's effective.

walter23 · May 11, 2009

cschweda said:
Does anyone have any specific suggestions for some sort of inert gas/air mixture to top off chemicals in bottles?

I've started C-41 processing and would like to fill the unused portions of the bottles with some sort of gas/air mixture for (moderate) preservation.

Is anyone using anything specific? Will the winesaver stuff work? Anything I'll want to avoid?

Nitrogen should be fine.

Dug · May 11, 2009

Buy a butane lighter refill canister and give it a little squirt into the bottle. Cheap, easy, readily available. (Standard disclaimer about doing this around open flame, etc.)

amuderick · May 11, 2009

Canned air works well. People may disagree on this forum but my real-world experience says otherwise. Just the standard 'Dust-Off' or other brand. It is difluoroethane. Pretty inert. My E-6 kits first developer and color developers are at least 6 months old now. They are opened and closed a few rolls at a time and the air is topped off with the Dust Off. The developer color has not turned.

The previous poster's suggestion is good too. Butane should work well.

fschifano · May 12, 2009

Dug said:
Buy a butane lighter refill canister and give it a little squirt into the bottle. Cheap, easy, readily available. (Standard disclaimer about doing this around open flame, etc.)

Well, I'm cheap and I already have a soldering torch that uses propane so I use that. Can't get Protectan in the US any more, or at least I haven't seen it for sale anywhere lately, and I'm sure as heck not going to spend $12 for a little dipshit can of that stuff when I can get a much larger cylinder of propane for $3 US.

Thomas Wilson · May 12, 2009

I just topped off my jugs of RA-4 developers with the dregs from an old propane bottle. I love this site!

thisismyname09 · May 12, 2009

Would helium be useful in this situation? huge tanks of it for filling balloons are pretty cheap.

Thomas Wilson · May 12, 2009

Helium is inert, but it is also much lighter than air. You will have to be pretty quick getting the cap back on!

lloyd · May 12, 2009

Bloxygen, used for woodworking finishes.

Bob F. · May 12, 2009

If in Europe, small(ish) disposable argon canisters are readily available at places that sell welding gear - unlike helium, argon is heavier than oxygen/air. I understand from other threads here that these are not available in the US.

Inert Gas to top off chemicals -- suggestions?

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