Indoor horse arena - which 120 film would you use?

[TheDreadPirateRobins]

I am going to the Oregon State Fair next Monday and will be trying to take some pictures indoors using my MF TLR. I was curious as to what some of you might choose as a film given the following criteria:

- 120 film
- B/W preference
- the lighting will be indoor lighting supplementing clerestory windows, all focused essentially in the middle where the events take place - I did sort of an a priori guess based on previous visits to the venue and decided it's roughly the same as an indoor sporting arena
- the subject will be in action
- no flash photography allowed
- they may not allow me to use a tripod, so I may not have that option


I was thinking of trying Ilford Delta 3200, simply because I can get the exposures to work out to about an F-stop of 5.6 at about 1/60 second or so... in other words, I can actually hand-hold that if I have to. This is assuming that Delta 3200 is actually 3200 ASA.

I have looked up some other threads on this film and I see the standard warnings about grain, etc.

Thanks!

Adam

 

[Mark Fisher]

Delta 3200 is a good choice. If you can expose it at 1200 or 1600, even better. The grain isn't a bad thing anyway....

One piece of advice, though:

Do everything you can to avoid getting those windows in the image. I've taken a number of shots indoors at county fairs and the windows blow out pretty badly. If you reduce development, then the contrast of the main part of the image is weak.....soooo, avoid getting the windows in the frame if at all possible.

 

[TheDreadPirateRobins]

Thanks for the advice on the windows. They are up high, and I would have to go to considerable heroics to get them into the frame considering that I am using a fixed 80mm on a 6x6 TLR and that I don't have access to shooting from the inside of the arena, like I would like to have.

Here's a basic question. When you say expose it at 1200 or 1600 you mean to expose it as if it were 1200 or 1600 ASA, right?

I have no built-in light meter, which, for this seasoned Spotmatic TTL meter guy, was a little scary to contemplate, but I have found that with some practice I meter pretty closely just by looking and applying a calculation.

 

[Pinholemaster]

Whatever film works with your vision of photography. Sounds like you've made a good decision.

 

[TheDreadPirateRobins]

I have to say that part of the idea behind Delta 3200 is that I really like what I have been getting with FP4 and HP5, and I can purchase a roll of this at my local camera shop.

 

[srs5694]

Delta 3200 isn't a true ISO 3200 film. IIRC, most people say it's closest to ISO 1000, give or take a bit depending on your developer. It's supposed to push reasonably well, though. IIRC, the one time I shot it I did so at EI 1000. (EI = exposure index. That's the speed at which you actually shoot a film.)

Concerning metering, you could always go buy a hand-held meter. I doubt if you could get one via eBay by Monday, but if you've got a local camera store, you could go there.

 

[TheDreadPirateRobins]

I have a hand-held meter. I have been using it to confirm my suspicions. One thing I notice is that when I meter by sight I tend to emphasize in my photo exactly what I wanted.

I jumped too early. The shop is out of Delta 3200 and has been for a couple weeks, and they aren't likely to get more soon. The guy I talked to, whose advice is generally excellent, suggested I use Tri-X and shoot it all as if it were 1200 or 1600 and then let the lab know (they are also one of the last optical labs left in this region) what I did and that they could push it for me in the developing. I would do this myself but I am between darkrooms.

 

[Mark Fisher]

I have a hand-held meter. I have been using it to confirm my suspicions. One thing I notice is that when I meter by sight I tend to emphasize in my photo exactly what I wanted.

I jumped too early. The shop is out of Delta 3200 and has been for a couple weeks, and they aren't likely to get more soon. The guy I talked to, whose advice is generally excellent, suggested I use Tri-X and shoot it all as if it were 1200 or 1600 and then let the lab know (they are also one of the last optical labs left in this region) what I did and that they could push it for me in the developing. I would do this myself but I am between darkrooms.

I did not realize you were going to send it out for developing. That being the case, I think you'd be better off pushing Tri-x anyway since the lab is probably more familiar with it.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

For what it's worth, Delta 3200 does really well at EI 3200. I know there are many recipes to get to the end result, so when you get a darkroom again (you only need a daylight tank and running water to develop film, by the way), the easiest and most bullet proof method of making this film sing (remember, this is my opinion only) is to use Ilfotec DD-X and develop the film according to the instructions Ilford give you for EI 6400. It looks awesome, and I love it for indoor shooting.

Tri-X is very versatile and I'm sure the lab will know what to do with it.

- Thomas

 

[2F/2F]

"I was thinking of trying Ilford Delta 3200, simply because I can get the exposures to work out to about an F-stop of 5.6 at about 1/60 second or so... in other words, I can actually hand-hold that if I have to. This is assuming that Delta 3200 is actually 3200 ASA."

Remember that you are shooting action. I would recommend against shooting at '60 unless you are after blur, both from the subjects' motion and from camera shake.

Also, are you sure your TLR will give you the angle of view you want?

Delta 3200 is not actually ISO 3200 if you test for shadow placement. If you do so, it only ends up about a stop or a stop and a half faster than HP5; ISO 1000 is what the data sheet sez, but everyone would have their own results if they tested. Look closely on the package. Nowhere on it do they use the term "ISO". Read the data sheet as well. It tells you all you need to know. It can be safely used to make printable exposures fairly easily rated up to about EI 8000 in my experience with the film. Of course, this comes at the expense of shadow detail. But how important is shadow detail really? It is overrated in my opinion. I prefer very black blacks, myself, especially for sports.

Remember that you can also bump the highlights with a selenium bath, if your prints are coming out too flat.

The grain is not horrendous by any stretch, especially in medium format. It is very neat, smooth, and organized grain. HP5 has "uglier" grain, IMO. You may want ugly, though. I usually do, if I am going for grain.

A common mistake I made with this film when I was using it blindly was that of overdevelopment, resulting in hard-to-print negs. You often don't need to push nearly as much as you think you might.

 

[TheDreadPirateRobins]

I am not sure the TLR will give me the angle of view I want, but it's not a big arena and the 80mm lens on that is roughly equivalent in terms of angle of view to the 50 mm on my 35 mm SLR. There is no assigned seating so I was going to try and get up close. If that doesn't work, I will take pictures outside with my Spotmatic, which is loaded up with 100 speed TMax.

The action I will be shooting will be draft horse events, so we're not talking fast moving. I think you may be right on the 1/60 being a little slow and so I may see about doing f/4 and 1/125 instead. The next speed I have on that is 1/300.

I have been having a blast shooting on this thing this summer. I know it's not the best camera. When my ship comes in I am going to buy a better MF camera, such as a Pentax 67 or a Mamiya or something of that caliber.

If I had been thinking earlier I would have put a roll of Delta 3200 or something else high speed in my 35 mm, which is far more versatile than my TLR for some of these things. I just love the larger negative and the results I can get with it.

 

[2F/2F]

You can rewind that T-Max 100, but not far enough to pull the leader into the cassette. If you already have pix on it, just take note of how many, write it on the cassette, and when you reload it later, put the lens cap on and shoot through them. Shoot a pair of blank frames afterward just to be safe.

 

[TheDreadPirateRobins]

You can rewind that T-Max 100, but not far enough to pull the leader into the cassette. If you already have pix on it, just take note of how many, write it on the cassette, and when you reload it later, put the lens cap on and shoot through them. Shoot a pair of blank frames afterward just to be safe.

I might just do that. It's easy on a Spotmatic as you can turn the crank slowly when rewinding and just listen for that POP that comes when it come off the take up spool.

 

[2F/2F]

Let us know how it goes on Monday.

Speaking of Spotmatics, I work as the photographer for an Estate sale company, and we just got in a Spotmatic lot with four lenses.

The lenses are 50mm f/1.4, 35mm f/3.5, and two 105mm f/2.8s. All have caps and cases, except the 50, which is on the camera, and the two 105s have hoods. All are in excellent shape. The mirror on the body seems to stick in the up position at the slower speeds most of the time. I really want to get the stuff myself, but I don' really need it, as I don't shoot Pentax. Let me know via PM if it sounds interesting.