Indigosols and heat

jsmoove · Jun 28, 2021

@fgorga
Hmm, yes, I've seen some nice cyanotype on glass with gelatin videos on youtube and the resolution looks pretty amazing.
Actually this site has helped me visualize the technique: https://cyanotyp.es/technique/cyanotype-on-glass-history-processes-variations/
An alternative question instead of 'is there an inorganic light sensitive dye' is, are there high melting point organic light sensitive dyes. Unlikely too. If there were you could pair them with a low melting point glass powder/frit.

jsmoove · Jun 29, 2021

@glbeas Is the resolution decent for the van dyke on the tile?

glbeas · Jun 30, 2021

jsmoove said:
@glbeas Is the resolution decent for the van dyke on the tile?

I only tried it once just to see if it would work. Resolution would depend on your negative source. I wouldnt try doing it without a layer of very thin mylar between a silver neg and the tile to avoid scratching it up. Since the unglazed tile is pretty thick compared to paper it takes a long rinse to eliminate all the fixer. It would probably need to be gold toned for best results as well.
I got my tile from an art supply store called Dick Blick.

jsmoove · Jul 14, 2021

I have recently (well not super recently, went back through my emails) learned that Solarfast is also a light-sensitive vat dye. Apparently it does not work well on glass, but theres no info on that anywhere, im not sure why it doesn't. Maybe someone can explain. It needs to be damp when you do the exposing.
"It will not work on synthetic fabrics, plastic or rubber, or non-absorbent surfaces such as sealed wood, glass or metal"

edit:

I'm told by Jacquard that it would work on glass with an acrylic primer, or on a porous surface. I would assume gelatin would work...
-No gases released by heat/no ammonia
-Temperature range is unknown

Vat blue 4 melting point is 470-500 : https://www.chemicalbook.com/ChemicalProductProperty_EN_CB5396425.htm

jsmoove · Jul 20, 2021

koraks said:
Dyes, being organic molecules, aren't likely to survive anything above a couple hundred degrees Celsius.

What is degradation of organic molecules under heat measured and labelled as exactly? Is it the boiling point I should look for, or sublimaton....melting point? All of the above?
I noticed that some vat dyes have a high boiling point: https://www.chemsrc.com/en/Catg/718.html 900c.

jsmoove · Jul 22, 2021

Exposure to ultraviolet radiation, solvents and high temperatures reduce the lifespan of leuco dyes. Temperatures above about 200–230 °C (392–446 °F) typically cause irreversible damage to leuco dyes; a time-limited exposure of some types to about 250 °C (482 °F) is allowed during manufacturing.

Says wikipedia. Solves that!

gone · Jul 22, 2021

I wanted to point something out here: Pottery and ceramics can be dangerous. Never put anything in a pottery/ceramic kiln that you are not 100% familiar with, or unless someone you trust tells you it is OK to go in there, and on what temp. There are seriously high temperatures in kilns, and the safety factor is much, much higher than artists or photographers are accustomed to.

Ruining your piece of art is one thing, but forming toxic gases or having a kiln "event" is not something one wants to be exposed to. The green ware sometimes explodes inside the kiln too if the potter hasn't properly dried the piece before going into the kiln. The gas (steam) from the piece builds up and builds up and WHAMO! Plus, poisoning yourself or others by making food/drink items w/ the wrong type of glazes or having it improperly fired is something to avoid. Working w/ porcelain? The firing temps can approach 2,500 F. I used to paint on it, and when the potters would mix up the glazes from powder we had to leave the premises due to the airborne particulates.

I had no idea that making pottery could be so dangerous until I started doing it. You can even kill yourself and others in the pottery lab by not sweeping up the floor well. What happens is, tiny pieces of dried clay get dropped there, and over time people walking on the stuff causes it to particulate, and it gets into the air people are breathing. This is silica we're talking about, and you really, really don't want that in there.

nmp · Jul 22, 2021

momus said:
I wanted to point something out here: Pottery and ceramics can be dangerous. Never put anything in a pottery/ceramic kiln that you are not 100% familiar with, or unless someone you trust tells you it is OK to go in there, and on what temp. There are seriously high temperatures in kilns, and the safety factor is much, much higher than artists or photographers are accustomed to.

Ruining your piece of art is one thing, but forming toxic gases or having a kiln "event" is not something one wants to be exposed to. The green ware sometimes explodes inside the kiln too if the potter hasn't properly dried the piece before going into the kiln. The gas (steam) from the piece builds up and builds up and WHAMO! Plus, poisoning yourself or others by making food/drink items w/ the wrong type of glazes or having it improperly fired is something to avoid. Working w/ porcelain? The firing temps can approach 2,500 F. I used to paint on it, and when the potters would mix up the glazes from powder we had to leave the premises due to the airborne particulates.

I had no idea that making pottery could be so dangerous until I started doing it. You can even kill yourself and others in the pottery lab by not sweeping up the floor well. What happens is, tiny pieces of dried clay get dropped there, and over time people walking on the stuff causes it to particulate, and it gets into the air people are breathing. This is silica we're talking about, and you really, really don't want that in there.

I am glad you brought up this subject. It's best not to put any unknown chemicals in a kiln, particularly in a community setting if you are not damn sure of what exactly is going to happen.

:Niranjan.

jsmoove · Jul 22, 2021

I do concur!

Something else. I've also been looking up low melting point glasses.
Some interesting ones:
https://www.neg.co.jp/uploads/sites/2/news-20191203_en.pdf (also in paste form)
https://www.mc.showadenko.com/english/report/062/62_tr08.pdf
http://www.artcoinc.com/easy_flow2.php
-Satake Glass

EDIT: I've also received some other interesting info that I'm not permitted to share publicly

Indigosols and heat

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