Incomplete image

LMNOP · Nov 8, 2015

Hey APUG,

My large format adventures continue, I'm starting to get respectable results, by my own measure at least. I've noticed that most of my negatives are missing part of the image. Somehow I've avoided this on two or three shots, but for the most part I'm seeing a 6x7 ratio on a 4x5 surface. I've considered cropping for 6x7, just because I like the look and I get all of my detail, but I'd rather fix the issue. Any ideas? Am I just not loading the film properly, or is it the way I insert the film into the camera?

Sirius Glass · Nov 8, 2015

Remind us again of the equipment that you are using please.

LMNOP · Nov 8, 2015

Calumet C400

papagene · Nov 8, 2015

How about a pic of the negative.

shutterfinger · Nov 8, 2015

What lens are you using?
How far were the bellows extended on the shots that worked and the ones that did not work?
Is there a mask in front of the film plane?

480sparky · Nov 8, 2015

Is the missing portion 'suddenly' cut off, i.e. there's a marked point where the image stops? Or is it fuzzy, like something is out of focus?

LMNOP · Nov 8, 2015

It is suddenly cut off. It seems like the flap on the film holder is covering a portion of the negative, but as I understand it, the only way to get the negative secure is aligned with the bottom groove of the holder.

shutterfinger · Nov 8, 2015

Love the way you only answer the questions you want to.

GOOGLE- loading large format film holders = http://www.butzi.net/articles/filmload.htm or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikOI1XLBxqA AND https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcjgKjEQDT4 for those that can't or don't like to read.

Doing it correct?

Vaughn · Nov 8, 2015

What happened is that the sheet of film was not pushed all the way into the holder before the flap was shut and the slide slid in. Tell-tale sign is no rebate on one end and way too much on the other.

LMNOP · Nov 8, 2015

shutterfinger said:
Love the way you only answer the questions you want to.

GOOGLE- loading large format film holders = http://www.butzi.net/articles/filmload.htm or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikOI1XLBxqA AND https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcjgKjEQDT4 for those that can't or don't like to read.

Doing it correct?

I'll try harder before starting another thread on apug.

Sirius Glass · Nov 8, 2015

shutterfinger said:
Love the way you only answer the questions you want to.

His answers are incomplete because the photographs are incomplete.

All seriousness aside, the negatives were not properly inserted into the holds, so they slipped out. I had the problem with some of the two sheet film holders, but moving to Grafmatic 45s eliminated that problem.

LMNOP · Nov 8, 2015

Sirius Glass said:
His answers are incomplete because the photographs are incomplete.

All seriousness aside, the negatives were not properly inserted into the holds, so they slipped out. I had the problem with some of the two sheet film holders, but moving to Grafmatic 45s eliminated that problem.

Thank you, I think that about sums it up. Despite having learned this from several YouTube tutorials, there is room for error, I guess I have to push the sheets up higher, appreciate the sincere response. It seemed like a groove at the bottom held them in place but I guess that is just the crease where the flap folds over.

Nige · Nov 8, 2015

Sirius Glass said:
All seriousness aside, the negatives were not properly inserted into the holds, so they slipped out.

not sure how you can surmise this without seeing the negs?

Also, if I load my 4x5 holders with 4x5 negs, the flap won't close unless the neg is in far enough (unless excessive force to crush the film is used!), but it won't go 'way in' cause the slot is only 5 and a bit inches long. If you're cutting your own materials to size, then all bets are off.

LMNOP · Nov 8, 2015

Nige said:
not sure how you can surmise this without seeing the negs?

Also, if I load my 4x5 holders with 4x5 negs, the flap won't close unless the neg is in far enough (unless excessive force to crush the film is used!), but it won't go 'way in' cause the slot is only 5 and a bit inches long. If you're cutting your own materials to size, then all bets are off.

The missing portion is the size of the flap, so it must be covering that much of the negative. These are standard size, not being crushed.

LMNOP · Nov 8, 2015

Sirius Glass · Nov 8, 2015

LMNOP said:
Thank you, I think that about sums it up. Despite having learned this from several YouTube tutorials, there is room for error, I guess I have to push the sheets up higher, appreciate the sincere response. It seemed like a groove at the bottom held them in place but I guess that is just the crease where the flap folds over.

Nige said:
not sure how you can surmise this without seeing the negs?

Also, if I load my 4x5 holders with 4x5 negs, the flap won't close unless the neg is in far enough (unless excessive force to crush the film is used!), but it won't go 'way in' cause the slot is only 5 and a bit inches long. If you're cutting your own materials to size, then all bets are off.

Because I had the same problem a few years ago. I thought the film was secure if the flap covered it, but the film must be pushed all the way into the opposite groove.

The advantage of LF over 35mm and MF is that since LF cameras do not have the interlocking mechanisms to prevent problems, one is free to screw up an LF photograph in a limitless number of ways.

Sirius Glass · Nov 8, 2015

LMNOP said:

Bin thar, dun dat!

LMNOP · Nov 8, 2015

Sirius Glass said:
Because I had the same problem a few years ago. I thought the film was secure if the flap covered it, but the film must be pushed all the way into the opposite groove.

The advantage of LF over 35mm and MF is that since LF cameras do not have the interlocking mechanisms to prevent problems, one is free to screw up an LF photograph in a limitless number of ways.

Well said, and thanks for the laugh, I espeically like that LF idiom there, i don't feel so bad for double exposing this weekend....

I've got that upper groove located, will try on the next batch. I appreciate the advice!

Nige · Nov 9, 2015

Sirius Glass said:
I thought the film was secure if the flap covered it, but the film must be pushed all the way into the opposite groove.

I didn't think you could do that... I'm going to have a look tonight.

The advantage of LF over 35mm and MF is that since LF cameras do not have the interlocking mechanisms to prevent problems, one is free to screw up an LF photograph in a limitless number of ways.

surely it's not limitless!

LMNOP · Nov 9, 2015

Nige said:
I didn't think you could do that... I'm going to have a look tonight.

surely it's not limitless!

.... I've yet to find a limit...

shutterfinger · Nov 9, 2015

All the film holders I have used the darkslide will not slide in fully easily but can be pushed in with moderate force if the film is not loaded properly.
I had the film fall out into the camera once as the film was in the darkslide track not the base track. The darkslide was difficult to operate, thought I had a dirty track.
Still don't know how I did it but just make sure I don't do it again.
There is still a few loading mistakes you can make.

Inadvertent double exposures are another story.

Sirius Glass · Nov 9, 2015

Nige said:
I didn't think you could do that... I'm going to have a look tonight.

surely it's not limitless!

So far the limit for me is something slightly less than infinity. The limit is even higher if I am using color film.

Doremus Scudder · Nov 9, 2015

LMNOP,

Now that you have a couple of scrap sheets of film, take them and your holders and practice loading with the lights on, so you can see what happens and how to avoid it. Then practice with your eyes closed till loading and unloading becomes second nature.

Then you can tackle those unintentional double exposures

FWIW, when I load, I push the sheet all the way in the holder with moderate force to make sure it seats at the opposite end. I then lift up on each corner gently to double-check that the film is under the guides. I feel for the code notch at the same time to make sure it is oriented correctly as well.

Best,

Doremus

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