In Praise of Clockwork mechanisms

benjiboy said:

The inverse snobbery buffs and Luddites have reared their ugly heads again, for Pete's sake it's the 21st century the whole World runs on electronics. Do you guys have clockwork smartphones computers and T.V's ?

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No. But I do have clockwork clocks and watches, in my pocket is a hunter cased Waltham from 1882. I like simple things that will last for generations if cared for, I do not like gadgety things that try to perform multiple functions that I do not need. Will any electronic cameras be functional after 135 years? Doubtful. But my ca. 1830 Frodsham marine chronometer could be cleaned, rated, and put back into service, it's age of 185~ years notwithstanding. There's no reason why my clockwork Contax won't be useable at that age either. Clockwork is not susceptible to damage from a Carrington event type EMP either.

E. von Hoegh said:

No. But I do have clockwork clocks and watches, in my pocket is a hunter cased Waltham from 1882. I like simple things that will last for generations if cared for, I do not like gadgety things that try to perform multiple functions that I do not need. Will any electronic cameras be functional after 135 years? Doubtful. But my ca. 1830 Frodsham marine chronometer could be cleaned, rated, and put back into service, it's age of 185~ years notwithstanding. There's no reason why my clockwork Contax won't be useable at that age either. Clockwork is not susceptible to damage from a Carrington event type EMP either.

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Well said, a man after my own heart.

film_man said:

I'd be curious to know how many people here have actually experienced, themselves, on equipment they own, electronic and mechanical failure in their cameras. I have yet to experience an electronic camera die. I have had more than one mechanical failures though.

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I've bought and sold a lot of cameras. It's inevitable, thus, that one will run across dead or malfunctioning ones. As to those that I can recall:

Canon A-1: just DOA
Canon F-1 (original): dead meter
Pentax Spotmatic: dead meter
Pentax Super Program: Malfunctioning meter "on" switch.
Pentax SF1: died after I put a fresh battery in it and fired it about four times. DOA now.
Pentax LX: suffered a short drop to a hard floor. DOA.
Nikon FE: just plain worn out mechanically, dead electronically
Nikon F2S: the finder's meter coupling literally fell apart
Fujica somethingoranother: dead LED cells in meter

I'm sure there are more, but those are all I can remember at the moment. It's worth commenting that, of all the mechanical cameras I've owned, I've never owned one that just locked up and went DOA the way an electronic camera tends to do.

Springs are of varying quality. I have found a very bad spiral spring with a Zeiss-Ikon Movikon 8, the cross model, I was able to stretch it out permanently with my naked hands, just like that. Bolex switched from one spring subcontractor to another for bad, many of them broke. A good spring lasts for 100 years or more.

wiltw said:

It depends upon what is meant by 'auto exposure' cameras...in the mid 60's a number of CdS metered cameras with auto exposure functionality were available, such as the Konica AutoReflex and the TTL exposure leaf-shuttered Topcon Auto 100, the leaf shuttered Contaflex Super BC, and the focal plane shuttered Konica AutoReflex T mechanical cameras

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Good point! I wonder if those mechanical shutter cameras were able to provide a kind of stepless aperture opening to compensate for the fixed shutter speeds?

Yes. For instance my Canon QL19 (a gift frm a friend's closet) uses the trapped needle system, one of the earliest auto-eposure systems. The meter needle indicates the appropriate aperture on a scale in the viewfinder, pressing the shutter rease partway locks the needle, the position of the needle is "read" by linkage connected to the aperture stopdown mechanism, continuing to press the release trips the shutter once the aperture is closed to the indicated value. Simple, accurate, and reliable.

I still like the sound of a slow shutter speed escapement winding down, but I also realize this is old-fart sentimentality.

Any lens on any 4x5 camera body = nothing quite like the sound of a clockwork 1/2 second exposure.

Last month I was using one of my Exaktas, a 1954 Exakta VX *4.2, with Kodak Ultramax 400 color film. One of the photos I made was inside my house and the exposure I needed was f/11 at 3/4 of a second. This gave me the opportunity to use the red settings on the secondary dial: a 10+ second delay followed by the 3/4 second exposure. The sound of the delay gears and the timed exposure was wonderful. The photo itself was flawless and the negative density looked exactly right.

I've never had a problem with any of my Exaktas. This one is 63 years old!

--
(*4.2 from http://www.wrotniak.net/photo/exakta/exakta-serial.html)

tessar said:

I still like the sound of a slow shutter speed escapement winding down, but I also realize this is old-fart sentimentality.

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No it's not old-fart sentimentality, it's appreciation of clockwork mechanisms.

Brian T said:

Any lens on any 4x5 camera body = nothing quite like the sound of a clockwork 1/2 second exposure.

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I like the big Compounds - "click...........click", a pneumatic mechanism.

BrianShaw said:

Are cameras in phones really necessary? when a camera will do the job.

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Well, it might be a bit difficult to make a phone call on a Pentax Spotmatic!

dmr said:

Well, it might be a bit difficult to make a phone call on a Pentax Spotmatic!

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How about a size 8 dress shoe?

cooltouch said:

Canon F-1 (original): dead meter
Pentax Spotmatic: dead meter
Pentax Super Program: Malfunctioning meter "on" switch.

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Cooltouch, I'm slightly dissapointed by your post.

I have found many Spotmatics with dead meters, but this is not an electronics problem.
ALL spotmatics i've found with dead meters, had this issue because of a corroded contact beneath the battery compartment. Thus, this is
(1) an electrical problem
(2) that solves really easily, by cleaning said contact.

With this, the meter goes back to life. So it is incorrect to classify such a camera as "dead meter".

Many electronic cameras appear to "fail" simply because power isn't getting to the circuits OR there is a faulty contact /solder point somewhere. These problems are trivial to solve, even easier than having to dissasemble the camera to get to the governor clockwork, remove it, soak it in solvent under an ultrasonic cleaner, and then oil the points that require lubricant.

As for the Super Program, a fully electronical camera, you indicate the switch was faulty. So again, an electrical problem that is really easy to solve. Why are you blaming the electronics then? Because, for example, the Nikon F2, a fully mechanical camera, also has a meter "on" switch, that can also fail from time to time... and nobody is complaining about this.

I have resurrected electronic cameras that appear dead by applying this simple common sense -- check out contacts for corrosion, check out solder joints and renew if needed. If people are throwing away those cameras as 'junk', well, their loss is my gain. I can buy them for cheap.

As for mechanical failures, i can't count the many times i've found a camera that is in perfect esthetical condition, but its clockwork mechanism is too slow, seized or about to seized. Because, you know, a camera in which the 1/2s speed gives you 1 second, or in which the 1/15 speed gives you 1/8, can't really be considered a ready-to-use, fully-working camera.

flavio81 said:

Cooltouch, I'm slightly dissapointed by your post.

I have found many Spotmatics with dead meters, but this is not an electronics problem.
ALL spotmatics i've found with dead meters, had this issue because of a corroded contact beneath the battery compartment. Thus, this is
(1) an electrical problem
(2) that solves really easily, by cleaning said contact.

With this, the meter goes back to life. So it is incorrect to classify such a camera as "dead meter".

Many electronic cameras appear to "fail" simply because power isn't getting to the circuits OR there is a faulty contact /solder point somewhere. These problems are trivial to solve, even easier than having to dissasemble the camera to get to the governor clockwork, remove it, soak it in solvent under an ultrasonic cleaner, and then oil the points that require lubricant.

As for the Super Program, a fully electronical camera, you indicate the switch was faulty. So again, an electrical problem that is really easy to solve. Why are you blaming the electronics then? Because, for example, the Nikon F2, a fully mechanical camera, also has a meter "on" switch, that can also fail from time to time... and nobody is complaining about this.

I have resurrected electronic cameras that appear dead by applying this simple common sense -- check out contacts for corrosion, check out solder joints and renew if needed. If people are throwing away those cameras as 'junk', well, their loss is my gain. I can buy them for cheap.

As for mechanical failures, i can't count the many times i've found a camera that is in perfect esthetical condition, but its clockwork mechanism is too slow, seized or about to seized. Because, you know, a camera in which the 1/2s speed gives you 1 second, or in which the 1/15 speed gives you 1/8, can't really be considered a ready-to-use, fully-working camera.

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Those aren't mechanical failures any more than a corroded cell contact is an electrical failure (and in my Spotmatic F the contact was not just corroded, it was gone!). What you described are lubrication failures, due to lack of maintenance. When I was given a rather nice looking Rollei K4B2 Automat, I ignored the sluggish shutter and dysfunctional transport and was instead elated that the camera hadn't been messed with by the eutoob tutorial/butterknife at the kitchen table/WD40 crowd. I'm pretty sure that camera had never been apart until I overhauled it.
I've also seen at least half-a-dozen Nikkormats with bad meter switches, and one FT with a contaminated insulator in the cell compartment. The resistance of the insulator was around 8000 ohms, due to soaking up (it was some sort of porous fiber) electrolyte from a leaky Wien cell. I turned a new insulator from Delrin and a new rivet from soft stainless steel, now it works.

Yeah, lubrication failures . . .
The thing is that amateur products are not designed for maintenance. You can unscrew and disassemble a camera only to find that threads go bad on each time you fasten the screws. Professional gear should be so designed that one can access everything in relatively short time, adjust what’s necessary, and remount the apparatus. Paillard spoke of the ‘Professional Amateur’ which is total nonsense but their products in fact go that way. You have a lot of functions and some truly professional features, yet threads are too short, washers with burrs hamper the run, aperture plates with non-machined sides stand askew, sort of bad prisms deteriorate the image, still other surprises have been found.

There were only very few cameras, printers, and projectors that stand up to professional standards. We know now, serviceability, repeatability, simplicity, ruggedness, longevity, it’s a brutal catalog.

E. von Hoegh said:

No. But I do have clockwork clocks and watches, in my pocket is a hunter cased Waltham from 1882. I like simple things that will last for generations if cared for, I do not like gadgety things that try to perform multiple functions that I do not need. Will any electronic cameras be functional after 135 years? Doubtful. But my ca. 1830 Frodsham marine chronometer could be cleaned, rated, and put back into service, it's age of 185~ years notwithstanding. There's no reason why my clockwork Contax won't be useable at that age either. Clockwork is not susceptible to damage from a Carrington event type EMP either.

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I have some guitar amps that are 70+ years old that still work. Like anything, they need maintainence. But only once every decade or three. They should last another 100 or more years with care. And they'll survive an EMP, since they don't have any semiconductors.

The biggest issue with longevity and electronic cameras has nothing to do with their electronics. It has to do with the time period they were introduced. Modern stuff isn't made to last generations like stuff from the past. It's called "planned obsolescence". They make them cheaply with the intent that they have a limited lifespan, believing that technology will improve and newer products that perform those functions better and will be available at cheaper prices than what it would cost to have the old one repaired. That doesn't mean there's anything inherent in electronics that causes them to fail. In fact, many electronic devices should outlast their mechanical counterparts due to less moving parts. And in the case of timing devices, maintain their accuracy for far longer due to not having to worry about springs losing tension, and pistons and gears wearing down. Springs especially, are not easy to fabricate accurately.

Another issue is the repairman is dying off. It's hard to charge enough to make the repair worth it's while when compared to buying new. So there aren't a lot of people looking for one, and there aren't a lot of people getting into that field. It's a dying art. Most of the old camera repairmen aren't well versed in electronics, so they'll tell you something is unrepairable, when the truth is they just don't know how. It won't be too many decades before finding anyone who knows how to repair mechanical shutters will be almost impossible. The good news is there's tons of information out there for anyone who has the patience and discipline to teach themselves clockwork and electronics repair. The bad news is, there won't be many people doing it for a living, and it's not something you can generally learn all about in a few hours. The old CLA will soon be something you either do yourself, or it doesn't get done.

So don't blame the electronics. Blame the modern day, bean counter mentality that came about during the same time that electronics started poking their heads into our everyday devices. If a company wanted to make an electronic camera that lasted 100's of years, they certainly could. The problem is, who would buy it? It wouldn't be as cheap, feature laden, or small as its competitors.

Jim, you're spot on. Google the "Grebe Synchrophase"radio reciever. I have one that not only works, but has never been repaired beyond a tube replacement, also have several sets of good period tubes. Not bad for 90+ years old.
And I worry about the numbers of cameras being destroyed by tinkerers in the "unconscious incompetence" stage of learning.

Well designed and engineered items can be durable and last more than one lifetime. The early days of any technology usually involves items being overbuilt. is; house, log cabin, timber framing, to balloon framing, to what is the nominal size of a 2X4? We have the advantage of lesser (camera) items over time fading away. Leaving us (today) with the better, stronger,more reliable. A mechanical eco system, the strong survive. Consumer electronics are designed down to a price. Make millions, do not repair but replace. A different life cycle. The life cycle of bacteria, millions, tens of millions, only one has to survive to reproduce. Quantity overwhelms quality. Having been the service engineer, what failed in modern products were the interfaces between the mechanical and the electronic. Switches, motors, indicator lights and panels, contactor's for circuit boards. The actual electronics (circuits as designed) survived the life cycle. Over the course of my working life watched product go from a expected working life of over ten years to the expected product life of two years. (Or less)
Our mechanical film camera that we love were designed and constructed as lifetimes items. Pass on to children and grandchildren. The D item were not designed, engineered or constructed with the same long view.
Blame ourselves with the short term thinking. Initial price not long term cost.
Mechanical can be self learned, watch, look, think. Electrons are too hard for these eyes to see when they move. Do notice when I let the smoke out. Must work on smoke, when smoke leaks out stopped working.

Recommended reading.
Marching Morons Cyril Kornbluth