In a world without Tri-X...

Xmas · Dec 4, 2013

hi dude
get a larger fridge I've still got 220 trix left & cans of 5222
try forma 400 & 200
read to 2nd page of link
Dead Link Removed
borax is cheap if Ansell used it... we can too
micro scales with 0.01 gm resolution are cheap brew up own witch spells if shop runs out

Pioneer · Dec 4, 2013

If Kodak did go away, I wonder how quickly Ilford could take up the slack? Face it, I know that Kodak is a shadow of its former self but I bet Alaris is still selling LOTS of Kodak film. I suspect that we would all be in a big hurt for quite some time if Kodak did roll over.

Vaughn · Dec 4, 2013

winger said:
...I just think there's a little more space for being slightly "wrong" with exposure with HP5+ and Tri-X as compared to the TMax and Delta lines.

Agree...and TMax has a little more space for being slightly 'wrong' with development.

While I'm sure this sounds like heresy to many, I'm usually trying to get a "look" based more on the subject and lighting than on any small differences between types of film. Once it's hanging on the wall, I doubt many people will be able to tell what I used.

Agreed. And keep the heresy going, I would guess that 90% of film users don't see any significant difference between the "look" of films...and 90% of the remaining 10% of the film users only think they see a significant difference.

Vaughn

StoneNYC · Dec 4, 2013

Pioneer said:
If Kodak did go away, I wonder how quickly Ilford could take up the slack? Face it, I know that Kodak is a shadow of its former self but I bet Alaris is still selling LOTS of Kodak film. I suspect that we would all be in a big hurt for quite some time if Kodak did roll over.

Pretty sure ilford could step up production rather quickly, remember kodak's machine can do a years run in 1-2 days, so even at full production ilford could run their machines to keep up with new demand. I'm sure they produce in batches like kodak (though not in one day) so I'm sure they could.

Thomas Bertilsson · Dec 4, 2013

Vaughn said:
Vaughn

That's funny. I have the exact opposite experience. Tri-X is far less forgiving with exposure, while TMY records 14 stops linear!
But Tri-X is far more forgiving in development, reacting less prominently to agitation changes, etc.

Thomas Bertilsson · Dec 4, 2013

Pioneer said:
If Kodak did go away, I wonder how quickly Ilford could take up the slack? Face it, I know that Kodak is a shadow of its former self but I bet Alaris is still selling LOTS of Kodak film. I suspect that we would all be in a big hurt for quite some time if Kodak did roll over.

You'd have to ask yourself whether it'd even be possible for Ilford to get all of the materials they need to make their film without Kodak!

Pioneer · Dec 4, 2013

Thomas Bertilsson said:
You'd have to ask yourself whether it'd even be possible for Ilford to get all of the materials they need to make their film without Kodak!

I think the film world is a lot more inter-linked than we even know, maybe even more than they know. Coating small batches at home is one thing, large production runs are something else entirely. I have no doubt, as Stone believes, that Ilford could probably ramp up their machinery. But that requires additional raw material that has to come from somewhere. All it takes is one small bottleneck in the supply chain somewhere to gum up the works.

But then, perhaps it is best that we don't know. Besides, someone somewhere has conducted the risk analysis and has come up with a plan...:confused:

StoneNYC · Dec 4, 2013

Pioneer said:
I think the film world is a lot more inter-linked than we even know, maybe even more than they know. Coating small batches at home is one thing, large production runs are something else entirely. I have no doubt, as Stone believes, that Ilford could probably ramp up their machinery. But that requires additional raw material that has to come from somewhere. All it takes is one small bottleneck in the supply chain somewhere to gum up the works.

But then, perhaps it is best that we don't know. Besides, someone somewhere has conducted the risk analysis and has come up with a plan...:confused:

I suppose you're right about the raw materials, I hadn't thought of that. Then again, whoever supplies kodak now, could in theory simply switch to ilford, they would need to find a new buyer to cover the cost of maintaining the amounts they currently creat (base material and raw chemicals etc) so the only issue would actually be the initial financing to purchase the larger amounts at the start up of a bigger run, which would probably be easy to get a loan for since you could prove a need existed and being the only game in town, the others (Adox / Rollei / FOMA) couldn't do it I don't think, not to the same degree that ilford could.

Anyway it's all speculation, thank goodness we don't have to worry about that

Tom1956 · Dec 5, 2013

Yes, if TX were to go I'd feel as if life was nearly finished. But alas I exist only as an empty shell of a being already, since the loss of Verichrome Pan. A bitter disappointment to be sure.

StoneNYC · Dec 5, 2013

Tom1956 said:
Yes, if TX were to go I'd feel as if life was nearly finished. But alas I exist only as an empty shell of a being already, since the loss of Verichrome Pan. A bitter disappointment to be sure.

Sometimes I think they modeled Eeyore after you...

BradleyK · Dec 5, 2013

Chris Lange said:
HP5+ in a heartbeat. I use them interchangeably already, so it wouldn't be the end of the world.

+1.

Tom1956 · Dec 5, 2013

I had to look that up. A donkey?? Just today you were calling me an elephant. I'd have preferred that as it fits much better. There's not a bit of donkey in me.

pstake · Dec 5, 2013

Eeyore is of the same sort of archetype as Charlie Brown. He's a skeptic and I'd venture apolitical.

BradS · Dec 5, 2013

pstake said:
Eeyore is of the same sort of archetype as Charlie Brown. He's a skeptic and I'd venture apolitical.

more importantly, I think, is that Eeyore is a "cup half empty" kinda guy.

Hatchetman · Dec 5, 2013

BradS said:
more importantly, I think, is that Eeyore is a "cup half empty" kinda guy.

Plus, his tail is always falling off.

jp498 · Dec 5, 2013

Dr Croubie said:
That's also my excuse for when the missus can't fit any shopping in the freezer, "but honey, I NEED those 50 rolls of bulk-loaded 135 TXP, those 15 rolls in 120, and that pack of 50 sheets". If it were gone for good, I'd just use up what I've got and move to HP5 and TMY, I'm not so picky about 'tones' as others, I just shoot the stuff.

I get away with filling most of the freezer because it's at work, and we don't need the freezer for much at work. Maybe some ice for iced coffee or Jim Beam once in a while and some BBQ leftovers. Keeping the freezer and fridge full is more efficient than empty.

StoneNYC · Dec 5, 2013

BradS said:
more importantly, I think, is that Eeyore is a "cup half empty" kinda guy.

But also importantly he is a likable character...

StoneNYC · Dec 5, 2013

jp498 said:
View attachment 77983

I get away with filling most of the freezer because it's at work, and we don't need the freezer for much at work. Maybe some ice for iced coffee or Jim Beam once in a while and some BBQ leftovers. Keeping the freezer and fridge full is more efficient than empty.

Is that ektachrome sheet?

Vaughn · Dec 5, 2013

Thomas Bertilsson said:
That's funny. I have the exact opposite experience. Tri-X is far less forgiving with exposure, while TMY records 14 stops linear!
But Tri-X is far more forgiving in development, reacting less prominently to agitation changes, etc.

Sorry -- that is what I meant. I thought something seemed off with my reply, but I was pretty wiped out last night (as in tired).

Tri-X less forgiving in exposure than TMax, but more forgiving in development.

fotch · Dec 5, 2013

StoneNYC said:
Pretty sure ilford could step up production rather quickly, remember kodak's machine can do a years run in 1-2 days, so even at full production ilford could run their machines to keep up with new demand. I'm sure they produce in batches like kodak (though not in one day) so I'm sure they could.

You are a person of many many opinions. Thanks for the disclaimer.

Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

erikg · Dec 5, 2013

There's no way to know for sure looking from the outside in but I suspect that Ilford wants to see Kodak survive much in the way Ford wants GM to survive. If one goes down many suppliers likely go too and the whole industry goes into shock. I don't wish to think about it really.

Thomas Bertilsson · Dec 5, 2013

erikg said:
There's no way to know for sure looking from the outside in but I suspect that Ilford wants to see Kodak survive much in the way Ford wants GM to survive. If one goes down many suppliers likely go too and the whole industry goes into shock. I don't wish to think about really.

Exactly!

For every job that was lost in Detroit during the last recession, ten jobs were lost at those companies that supplied all of the manufacturers with parts. It has a magnified ripple effect.

rubyfalls · Dec 5, 2013

Xmas said:
hi dude
get a larger fridge I've still got 220 trix left & cans of 5222
try forma 400 & 200
read to 2nd page of link
Dead Link Removed
borax is cheap if Ansell used it... we can too
micro scales with 0.01 gm resolution are cheap brew up own witch spells if shop runs out

This kinda blew my mind. I've got so much to learn - which I find appealing rather than daunting. I've thought about taking a photography course at the local uni, but then I wonder if my time and money would be better served continuing as I have been. Basically giving myself "assignments" and studying what interests me. The library and the internet have gotten me this far...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Xmas · Dec 5, 2013

The library is good just looking at Ansells photos gives us all a goal to aim at.

Adding a Borax bath after any developer will help any inadvertent underexposure.

But I think the story about one of the other self taught female photographers was when a photographer asked how she got the grain in her photos, the answer I drop the film off at the local shop.

So don't get worried about details if it works.

You are right to be worried about trix, however eg Ilford and Forma produce acceptable alternatives. But you don't need to jump into the lifeboat on the Titanic unless she bumps into a berg.

StoneNYC · Dec 5, 2013

Xmas said:
The library is good just looking at Ansells photos gives us all a goal to aim at.

Adding a Borax bath after any developer will help any inadvertent underexposure.

But I think the story about one of the other self taught female photographers was when a photographer asked how she got the grain in her photos, the answer I drop the film off at the local shop.

So don't get worried about details if it works.

You are right to be worried about trix, however eg Ilford and Forma produce acceptable alternatives. But you don't need to jump into the lifeboat on the Titanic unless she bumps into a berg.

Is this true about borax and under exposure? Does this JUST bring up the shadows? Or could it potentially blow highlights too?

In a world without Tri-X...

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