In a world without Tri-X...

eddie · Dec 13, 2013

wblynch said:
It's why we are here. Plenty of places to be if you don't want to hear about film. Plenty...

I think Chris means just use what's available to you. If there's no Tri-X, move on to something else. Anyone who has done this for a few decades should be used to adapting to new materials by now. Things come and go...

Thomas Bertilsson · Dec 13, 2013

Chris Lange said:
blah blah blah blah blah. film film film film whatever.

I do agree with Chris. When I look back at the pictures I made over the years, I don't exactly think about film choice. I just look at prints, old and new, wondering how I could make a better print. All films are good enough, your skill matters much more and it truly is what you do with it that has by far the greatest effect on the outcome.

Pioneer · Dec 13, 2013

wblynch said:
It seems like this thread is about Tri X once again.

I have finally admitted to myself that I just don't like Tri-X

I know it has been the sh-- since the 1970s and it is almost a religious icon. I mean who could publicly admit that they don't like Tri-X?

I absolutely adored Plus-x and in the recent years with my return to only film photography I just had to buy more Tri-X. And when Freestyle announced the demise of Arista Premium 400, I rushed to get another 20 rolls just for insurance. Because that's what everybody likes.

But I never have been able to get the look I like from it. Even looking at most people's postings of Tri-X photos they have the look that I get but don't like.

I love Fuji Neopan 400 and even Fomapan 400 so I have those. But I haven't even tried HP5 or Delta or even T-Max 400 yet.

So, for once, if a popular film was killed off (Tri-x) I would not be sad. I will laugh and chuckle and go get some HP5.

And in a year or two, maybe I could sell off my little stash to the more appreciative.

OMG that must be heresy!!

Ah well, I don't use very much of it myself either. I am sure it is very good film, that many peeples can't be wrong. But if I do need fast I want a film that won't feel too limited. I like my Delta 3200.

Xmas · Dec 13, 2013

jnanian said:
they have done this for decades, it is not something new ( even when the market was booming ),
it has nothing to do with soul less accountants controlling production ..

The monochrome market has been slip slip sliding since 1970...
Before then there were only yellow Kodak boxes in my local pharmacy needed to go two blocks more for Ilford from wedding shop!
Then green boxes magically appeared.
Some time later digital.
Kodachrome was cancelled because everyone had gone to E6 or digital and the soul less...
Plusx ditto lots of people I know used Plusx and complained to me answer 'Kodak do not make 120 film they make film in jumbo runway pitches all the other people that used it have gone digital I've nevery used it.'
'No' one is using Trix I don't buy it unless the shops has nothing else the last ten expired I bought were the first since 1970... I use Double-X... it is cheaper
Soul less accountants run large companies.

Thomas Bertilsson · Dec 13, 2013

Xmas said:
The monochrome market has been slip slip sliding since 1970...
Before then there were only yellow Kodak boxes in my local pharmacy needed to go two blocks more for Ilford from wedding shop!
Then green boxes magically appeared.
Some time later digital.
Kodachrome was cancelled because everyone had gone to E6 or digital and the soul less...
Plusx ditto lots of people I know used Plusx and complained to me answer 'Kodak do not make 120 film they make film in jumbo runway pitches all the other people that used it have gone digital I've nevery used it.'
'No' one is using Trix I don't buy it unless the shops has nothing else the last ten expired I bought were the first since 1970... I use Double-X... it is cheaper
Soul less accountants run large companies.

I don't think it's accountants. An accountant just records financial events.
What you're referring to is the finance department. Big difference.
Ilford has said so themselves, however, that unless an investment yields enough Return on Investment (ROI), like the Cooltone developer, then it doesn't make sense for them to continue with it. It's as simple as that. If you don't make any money on your investment, then what should you do? Keep the investment anyway, and let it bleed money, just because people love it? That would constitute a disservice to all of the people that are employed by the company, so that there is cash to pay their salaries.

A business is foremost about economics.

Ilford is a bit more nimble, because I think it's privately owned. Kodak is publicly owned, so the pressure regarding profit is much higher on them, from a standpoint of how much of it they generate. Interestingly, Ilford has stated that their company is robustly profitable, while Kodak has been bleeding cash for a very long time.

Don't blame it on the accountants. Blame it on the people who make financial decisions on behalf of the shareholders.

StoneNYC · Dec 13, 2013

Xmas said:
The monochrome market has been slip slip sliding since 1970...
Before then there were only yellow Kodak boxes in my local pharmacy needed to go two blocks more for Ilford from wedding shop!
Then green boxes magically appeared.
Some time later digital.
Kodachrome was cancelled because everyone had gone to E6 or digital and the soul less...
Plusx ditto lots of people I know used Plusx and complained to me answer 'Kodak do not make 120 film they make film in jumbo runway pitches all the other people that used it have gone digital I've nevery used it.'
'No' one is using Trix I don't buy it unless the shops has nothing else the last ten expired I bought were the first since 1970... I use Double-X... it is cheaper
Soul less accountants run large companies.

You're funny...

You only buy double-x on the cheap, and don't buy Tri-X and then wonder why films get discontinued and blame the soulless accountants when you're doing the same thing.

Pioneer · Dec 13, 2013

Lest everyone forget, that is what happens in a free market. People make decisions based on their own selfish interests, and that includes price, as well as other things. And that includes those "soul less" accountants as well.

But I think that Tri-X seems to be holding its own as it is still around when other films are not, and not just Kodak films.

MattKing · Dec 13, 2013

Xmas said:
The monochrome market has been slip slip sliding since 1970...
Before then there were only yellow Kodak boxes in my local pharmacy needed to go two blocks more for Ilford from wedding shop!
Then green boxes magically appeared.
Some time later digital.
Kodachrome was cancelled because everyone had gone to E6 or digital and the soul less...
Plusx ditto lots of people I know used Plusx and complained to me answer 'Kodak do not make 120 film they make film in jumbo runway pitches all the other people that used it have gone digital I've nevery used it.'
'No' one is using Trix I don't buy it unless the shops has nothing else the last ten expired I bought were the first since 1970... I use Double-X... it is cheaper
Soul less accountants run large companies.

I think I know how you chose your screen name

rubyfalls · Dec 13, 2013

Say what you will, but I think the Tri-X really captured the moment here.

The moment at which my kids began to revolt.

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rubyfalls · Dec 13, 2013

Compared to one of the D3200 shots:

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jerrybro · Dec 13, 2013

Roger Cole said:
If you can't make good photographs with one, you won't be able to with the other, and conversely if you CAN. They're not identical but they're both excellent and, frankly, the differences between them pale when considering what makes or breaks a photograph.

Dang, I wish I said that. The quality of the product we produce starts with the composition, and from there the materials will only enhance it. If you look at a photo and only see the grain, or the murky shadows, or the blown out highlights, then the shot failed. Or, your a hardware geek and miss the point. The same issue exists in high end audio. If all you are hearing is the muddy bass or the distorted highs you're missing the music. Some really great photgraphs are technically challenged, just like some really good music was poorly recorded.

jerrybro · Dec 13, 2013

Chris Lange said:
blah blah blah blah blah. film film film film whatever.

Yup.

jerrybro · Dec 13, 2013

Pioneer said:
Lest everyone forget, that is what happens in a free market. People make decisions based on their own selfish interests, and that includes price, as well as other things. And that includes those "soul less" accountants as well.

But I think that Tri-X seems to be holding its own as it is still around when other films are not, and not just Kodak films.

Ah, the voice of reason. A lot of the world doesn't understand markets and the power of individual choice.

removed account4 · Dec 14, 2013

Xmas said:
The monochrome market has been slip slip sliding since 1970...
Before then there were only yellow Kodak boxes in my local pharmacy needed to go two blocks more for Ilford from wedding shop!
Then green boxes magically appeared.
Some time later digital.
Kodachrome was cancelled because everyone had gone to E6 or digital and the soul less...
Plusx ditto lots of people I know used Plusx and complained to me answer 'Kodak do not make 120 film they make film in jumbo runway pitches all the other people that used it have gone digital I've nevery used it.'
'No' one is using Trix I don't buy it unless the shops has nothing else the last ten expired I bought were the first since 1970... I use Double-X... it is cheaper
Soul less accountants run large companies.

so monochrome's decline was because of kodak's accountants ?
and kodakchrome, and velox, and royal pan and VP and panatomic x, and old tmy(1) as well ?
and lack of interest of the public to buy kodak's product ( like you buying double x instead of tri x ) ?

as i said before, kodak has been canceling films and papers since the beginning .. it isn't something new.

its the people who take photographs that cause the decline of film and paper and chemistry and b/w photography.
if people aren't interested in it ( i don't mean 60K on a website devoted to it, i mean the movie industry and millions of people who are devotees )
there is nothing that companies that manufacture the supplies can do about it

then again,i guess the accountants can cook the books, made up a bunch of lies so it seemed like everything
sells like hot cakes, not sure what the point would be ...

Xmas · Dec 14, 2013

jnanian said:
so monochrome's decline was because of kodak's accountants ?

Colour predominantly

and kodakchrome

E6 predominantly

( like you buying double x instead of tri x ) ?

Double-X is Kodak but a lot cheaper than bulk Kodak and I shoot a lotta film.
Think it was in 135 but withdrawn.
Trix is not in the shops I frequent when I run out & I need to buy off the shelf, it has not been there neither was Plusx nor 3200, but BW400CN has been. Happy snappers who need local mini labs may have squeezed Trix? In effect colour c41.
Market forces driving nails into Trix coffin.
The cine people have gone to colour to so 5222 will soon go as well.

removed account4 · Dec 14, 2013

not sure, color photography, has been around for 1839 in one form or another ...
and making chromes since the turn of the 1900s

Xmas said:
Colour predominantly

E6 predominantly

Double-X is Kodak but a lot cheaper than bulk Kodak and I shoot a lotta film.
Think it was in 135 but withdrawn.
Trix is not in the shops I frequent when I run out & I need to buy off the shelf, it has not been there neither was Plusx nor 3200, but BW400CN has been. Happy snappers who need local mini labs may have squeezed Trix? In effect colour c41.
Market forces driving nails into Trix coffin.
The cine people have gone to colour to so 5222 will soon go as well.

i agree the supply chain has been kind of wonky for a long time, not sure how that is the accountants' fault too
and kodak processing / mini labs leaving a gap in the consumer infrastructure, is the accountants' fault too ?

whether 5222 is made by kodak or not it isn't packaged and sold as a "normal" 135 format film
and if people buy 5222 instead of boosting tri x ( or plus x ) sales ...
IMHO they really can't complain that kodak stopped making tri x ( or plus x ) seeing they never bought it anyways.

but just the same, i see where you are coming from.

Roger Cole · Dec 14, 2013

Buying film off the shelf, how novel.

The only thing I can find locally is Fuji consumer 35mm C41, and have to look around even for that. I haven't bought a single roll of film that I didn't buy online and have delivered since I got back into photography in 2010.

rubyfalls · Dec 14, 2013

Roger Cole said:
Buying film off the shelf, how novel.

The only thing I can find locally is Fuji consumer 35mm C41, and have to look around even for that. I haven't bought a single roll of film that I didn't buy online and have delivered since I got back into photography in 2010.

My local "off the shelf" options are Kodak Gold or Kodak Gold.

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Xmas · Dec 14, 2013

Some of our pharmacies and Lomos are open on Sundays till 19:00 local...
The largest pharmacy chain has been shelving, HP5, Xp2 & BW400CN (as well as C41 colour) at sharp prices given no postage - note some may stock Trix but not seen any.
Lomo shelves rebadged film similar $. The local one has mini lab, think they run it Sundays, excellent quality as well ie no scratches...
Some of the small photo shops and market traders shelve film, both fresh and outdated.

MattKing · Dec 14, 2013

Local supplier here (the agfa labelling on the cooler needs updating):

Pioneer · Dec 14, 2013

Roger Cole said:
Buying film off the shelf, how novel.

The only thing I can find locally is Fuji consumer 35mm C41, and have to look around even for that. I haven't bought a single roll of film that I didn't buy online and have delivered since I got back into photography in 2010.

Our choices here are pretty much down to Fuji and Kodak consumer c-41.

If I make a trip to Reno I get quite a good selection at Gordon's.

But, well over 90% of my film purchases come from on-line sources.

Ah well, life in the digital age...memory cards everywhere, film not so much.

Roger Cole · Dec 14, 2013

There is, I think, a camera store inside Atlanta proper that has film and even darkroom items. I tried to find it once and followed my GPS to the address I had for it and wound up in something like an industrial park, which looked deserted in the evenings, so I think I had the wrong address. I'm generally averse to driving ITP (Insite The Perimeter of I-285 for non-locals) anyway - narrow lanes, too much traffic, no parking etc. - but I'll do it on occasion. But as far as I've found no one up here in Gwinnett carries film to speak of, other than some consumer 35mm C-41.

StoneNYC · Dec 15, 2013

MattKing said:
Local supplier here (the agfa labelling on the cooler needs updating):

WOW Matt ... that's awesome... it's like dream land!!! My local lab (the only true camera store in CT now that even remotely stocks and sells film, has cut their shelf from the whole thing filled with reels and developer for the college kids, to just 4 squares in the shelf... and the haven't bought new film lately either, I can see it dwindling down... I kind of like the AGFA sign above the cooler, wish I could snag it!

As far as non-lab film places... I've noticed that the only places that stock any film are stop&shop (or Giant if you're in the south/west) and CVS/Walgreens, but there's only color fuji stuff at the stop and shops and kodak sells at CVS/Walgreens but ONLY the C-41 stuff ... the ONLY place that Tri-X is sold is in the "Ghetto" areas ... seriously, it's the only place you can get real B&W film ... there must be a small market of low income people who can't afford a digital camera and still buy real B&W film and send it away for processing or something, but it's only in the ghetto ... lol

RattyMouse · Dec 15, 2013

I only know of one location in Shanghai, a city of 24 million people that has film. So I have to stock up real well when I go there as it is many miles from my house. I sure miss the days of easy film access.

Ken Nadvornick · Dec 15, 2013

MattKing said:
Local supplier here (the agfa labelling on the cooler needs updating):

Wow, Matt. If you've got all THAT available above the big fat white line, why do you even bother with Glazer's down here? Maybe I should be crossing in the other direction just for that darkroom supply section.

:confused:

Ken

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