Impulse Buy / 2 SLR's / Sigma SA-9 and SA-7n

bvy · Jun 1, 2017

Not sure what I was thinking. My Nikon F100 arrived just last week (thank you, Harris) and it's my first encounter with a modern electronic SLR. I like it a lot.

Then I got to thinking about lenses. It would be great if I could share AF lenses between my film and digital bodies. Well, Sigma is my digital camera of choice for its Foveon sensor, so I started reading up on Sigma's SLR offerings. There weren't many and they weren't very popular, but they were fairly well regarded. As timing would have it, I found a lot -- a Sigma SA-7n and SA-9 plus kit lens -- at a price low enough to justify a trial.

So I'm not sure what kind of mess I've gotten myself into. I shoot portraits -- studio, some location. So these cameras aren't something I'll use every day or travel with. The F100 will be hard to top. But I don't want a Nikon DSLR. Probably. (Sorry for the digital digression...)

Hell, I don't even think I have a question. Just rambling. Anybody familiar with these Sigma SLR's?

AgX · Jun 1, 2017

I did not even know that there were cameras offered by Sigma. Who was the manufacturer? Cosina?

Sirius Glass · Jun 1, 2017

Enjoy and buy more film.

locutus · Jun 1, 2017

I had a Sigma SA-300 and it was horrible. FWIW

Paul Howell · Jun 1, 2017

They were made by Sigma, got very good reviews, the SA 9 has top shutter speed of 1/8000, flash sync of 180th of a second, matrix, spot, average metering, data back, the SA7 all the same feature with top shutter speed of 1/2000th and 2 FPS. With an adaptor was able to use all my prime M42 lens. I had both for over 10 years, ran 100s of rolls of film, one of reasons I bought Sigma digital bodies was I had a nice set of lens. But then came the yellow death. The glue Sigma used in the pentaprism turns yellow with age. First the SA9 then the SA7, I was able to continue using both for black and white, as I have a couple of SD9s which are built on the SA9 body thought of transferring the pentaprism, but Sigma told me that the parts are not interchangeable. Just tossed them, I now use Minolta A mount. Just too bad, both were very nice cameras. I have seen a few for sale on Shopgoodwill.com and can see the yellow in the viewfinders.

bvy · Jun 2, 2017

Paul Howell said:
They were made by Sigma, got very good reviews, the SA 9 has top shutter speed of 1/8000, flash sync of 180th of a second, matrix, spot, average metering, data back, the SA7 all the same feature with top shutter speed of 1/2000th and 2 FPS. With an adaptor was able to use all my prime M42 lens. I had both for over 10 years, ran 100s of rolls of film, one of reasons I bought Sigma digital bodies was I had a nice set of lens. But then came the yellow death. The glue Sigma used in the pentaprism turns yellow with age. First the SA9 then the SA7, I was able to continue using both for black and white, as I have a couple of SD9s which are built on the SA9 body thought of transferring the pentaprism, but Sigma told me that the parts are not interchangeable. Just tossed them, I now use Minolta A mount. Just too bad, both were very nice cameras. I have seen a few for sale on Shopgoodwill.com and can see the yellow in the viewfinders.

Thanks Paul. I've read about this phenomenon, perhaps didn't realize that it was quite so widespread, but didn't think that it affected image quality in any way. I'll have to see what I get back.

Paul Howell · Jun 2, 2017

If the yellowing has not too bad you can shoot black and white without much issue, color is more of problem. My SA 7 and 9 got so dark could not use in dim light. Do you have an SA mount lens?

bvy · Jun 2, 2017

Paul Howell said:
If the yellowing has not too bad you can shoot black and white without much issue, color is more of problem. My SA 7 and 9 got so dark could not use in dim light. Do you have an SA mount lens?

Yes. A kit lens. But I'm confused. If it's a problem with the viewfinder, why would it matter if I'm shooting black and white or color film?

Paul Howell · Jun 2, 2017

I could not judge the color with the yellow tint, I use Corkin filters could not use color correction filters or polarizer, again with a dim viewfinder a polarizer made the viewfinder even dimmer. I guess for straight shoot would not matter as the tint does not impact film in any way. If you decide you can use the bodies good news is that are many very good midlevel Sigma lens that work well. Also if you have any M42 screw mount lens an adaptor works well. I would often use a 28 to 80 3.5 to 5.6 APO on one body and a Pentax M42 105 2.8 on the other.

AgX · Jun 2, 2017

What cement-layer is this about? Is the field lens cemented to the prism block?

Paul Howell · Jun 2, 2017

I don't know, did not take the prism or pentaprism apart, just yellow, more yellow with time. Seems that Sigma knw what going on, the SD9 is built on the SA 9 body, but they changed the pentaprism, I have 2 and no yellowing.

miha · Jun 2, 2017

AgX said:
I did not even know that there were cameras offered by Sigma. Who was the manufacturer? Cosina?

I'm surprised AgX as these cameras were heavily advertised in German magazines of the time. ColorFoto prized them highly.

John Wiegerink · Jun 2, 2017

If my memory serves me right, which isn't often, I believe the SA-7/SA-7N had a mirror system instead of a prism. The SA-9 might also? I was told it was a tarnish problem and not cement/glue.

Paul Howell · Jun 2, 2017

Just check my old SA9 manual, your your right, a pentamirror, not sure about the tarnish vs. glue, told by Sigma it was the adhesive but could have been the mirror, if it a tarnish problem some hope of polish?

John Wiegerink · Jun 2, 2017

Paul Howell said:
Just check my old SA9 manual, your your right, a pentamirror, not sure about the tarnish vs. glue, told by Sigma it was the adhesive but could have been the mirror, if it a tarnish problem some hope of polish?

Paul,
Thanks for confirming that my memory hasn't completely vanished. As for glue vs. tarnish? I can't really say for sure on that part. The Sigma SA-7's and SA-9 cameras were not bad user cameras, but that blasted pinkish half of my viewfinder is serious distraction that's for sure.

AgX · Jun 3, 2017

miha said:
I'm surprised AgX as these cameras were heavily advertised in German magazines of the time. ColorFoto prized them highly.

I seem to have a gap as well in my literature as well in my knowlege concerning these years. Anyway, I never came them across in real either. Should be telling.

Paul Howell · Jun 3, 2017

At least in the US the SA7 and 9 were sold by Kit's Camera and few other chains, and catalog sales. I bought my SA7 on impulse. My F3P was ripped off at LAX just after 911, Southwest would not allow me to bring on board as carry on, disappeared from check luggage. My 4X5 gear make it. I did not replace the F3 as I did not know if I wanted to move to a F5 or 4 and I was shooting LF. While in the local mall Kit's had the SA7 with 2 kit lens for under $200, on impulse I bought it. Really liked it, upgraded the lens with red ring 70 to 300 and a 50 1.4 then added the SA9. Auto focus is not the best, but really a very nice camera for the money. Reviewers complained that users are limited to Sigma Lens. In reality the only lens not available are other 3rd party lens, if I had bought a N90 I could not have used Canon or Pentax lens, and the other options were Sigma, Tonkia, and Tamron. With Sigma I was limited to Sigma and can not use Tamron. Mid level and Pro level Sigma lens are very good. My entire viewfinder was yellow, and dark, I tossed both kept the lens as I still have Sigma Digital. My 35mm system is now Minolta, and I still have M42 gear.

bvy · Jun 10, 2017

Well, they arrived. And what do you know... I actually got THREE bodies: two SA-7n's and one SA-9. The lens is nothing special -- a 28-80 AF kit lens.

First impressions: They don't feel as solid as the Nikon F100 I also recently acquired. More plasticky, but also lighter. The feature set is far less intimidating and easier to navigate, but it might just because it has fewer features than the F100. They all have the colored mirror problem -- all three have a magenta tint. A little distracting, but they hardly render the cameras unusable (for me at least). They also have mirror lock-up and a pop-up flash -- neither of which the F100 has. Still, for serious (ahem) work, I think I'd still pull out the F100.

So each is currently loaded with a 12 exposure roll of Fujicolor 100 -- test rolls. We'll see what happens.

PS: Does anyone have or can you point me to a manual for the SA-7n?

Paul Howell · Jun 10, 2017

Don't underrate the 28 to 80 APO, a very good lens, somewhat slow but works well stopped down. The red ring 70 to 300 APO is a very nice long lens, not fast but very sharp with decent AF. This is not the kit lens but a step up, much better AF and sharper than the entry level kit lens. All Sigma SA lens will work including any of the full frame Art lens. I have the 50 1.4, not the newer art lens, 70 to 300 red ring and 70 to 200 2.8, 28 to 105, all decent performers. There is only one manual, same for SA7 and 9, just google and you will find a copy.

bvy · Jun 10, 2017

Thanks. I found and read that one. Thought the 7n had its own manual.

As far as lenses, I'll be looking for some portrait length lenses to share with an SD15 or newer Foveon DSLR (taking crop factor into consideration of course).

Paul Howell · Jun 10, 2017

I use the 28 to 105 3.8 to 5.6, this is a mid level lens, AF is good, although does not work well on SD 14 or 15, on my SD 9 and SA bodies, M 42 with adaptor. Not sure about the 7n, manual, I had the standard 7. You can try the Sigma web site, at one time they still listed the film bodies, email them they might send you a copy. On a cropped sensor I have the 17 to 70 2.8 to 4.

bvy · Jun 10, 2017

I must be missing something. All three bodies are metering about three stops under what the scene registers (based first on intuition then verified with a meter). Could this have something to do with the discolored mirror? I'm using the only lens I have (as described above).

And, thinking ahead, are there any other AF film cameras that take an SA-mount?

EDIT: I should add that I checked the obvious things -- ISO is correct, EC is at zero, spot meter is off, etc.

Paul Howell · Jun 10, 2017

As to other camera using the SA mount, none that I know of. Both of my bodies meters were dead on, average mode gray card bright light, what I did notice is that in Matrix mode each varied by a stop or two, never figured out the difference. All three 3 stops?

bvy · Jun 10, 2017

Paul Howell said:
As to other camera using the SA mount, none that I know of. Both of my bodies meters were dead on, average mode gray card bright light, what I did notice is that in Matrix mode each varied by a stop or two, never figured out the difference. All three 3 stops?

Yeah. Weird, huh? Batteries seem okay. Could it be the lens?

mshchem · Jun 10, 2017

I fell off a bike a while back. The Doc gave me Tylenol with hydrocodone (The real thing). When I recovered I noticed a spike in my Visa balance and several nice cameras and lenses had appeared. I told my wife it was the drugs. Plausible Deniability !

Impulse Buy / 2 SLR's / Sigma SA-9 and SA-7n

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