Improving my BW developing process

jnanian said:

dang, I hate when that happens!



"Madge, why are my fingers tingling?"
"no need to worry Betty ( pushing her manicure client's hand back into the funny colored liquid )
you are soaking your hands in farmers reducer,
photographers have been using it for years to bleach and reduce film density,
we use in the kitchen not only to reduce yor dishes to .. well, goop, but to work on those fingers too "

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"ohh, modern times.. all these wonderful new products. went to the hairdresser last week and he has been using this amazing new hardener with chrome whatever to spray my blow-dry hairstyle. it has been resisting to the rain the whole week..
my eyes are sore though since a few days. i wonder.. you think it could be related, madge?"

Sirius Glass said:

NO
NO
NO
NO
NO
NO
NO

That is a really bad idea waiting to damage the film. Do not do that in your darkroom!
​

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may i see just one pic showing such a "damaged" negative please? just one...?

Hallo, Herr Huwyler (three H, funny)

Ich habe jahrelang kommerziell Filme entwickelt und rate Ihnen zu Folgendem:
Viskoseschwammtücher, Coop oder Migros, feucht, aber gut ausgedrückt, zwei Mal falten und den Film mit geringstem Druck durchziehen, um alles lose Wasser abzunehmen. Schwammtuch unter Reiben ausspülen und wie Film staubfrei trocknen lassen. Vor Staub geschützt in Plastikbeutel aufbewahren

Ich habe Kilometer von Film derart abgewischt und nie einen Kratzer gehabt. Ich habe auch Hirschleder ausprobiert, doch das geht auch kaputt und ist teuer.

Wir können uns auf der deutschen APUG-Seite weiter unterhalten.

Gruß, E.

At the risk of getting lost in the noise here...

A final rinse with wetting agent and distilled water is the answer for hard water problem and will eliminate spots. If your water is hard, it is important to soak the negatives in this final bath for longer than the recommended time for the wetting agent. You want to do more than take advantage of the surfactant effect; you want to soak the minerals from the hard water out of the emulsion so they don't deposit on the film when drying. I use a minimum of three minutes. Longer may be needed with harder water; experiment if you still get spots after a three-minute soak with agitation. Three minutes, however, seemed to do the job when I lived in San Antonio, which has some of the hardest water in the nation.

Make sure to dilute the wetting agent correctly (or a bit less than recommended) and use one-session/batch. Reused solution has two problems in this scenario. First, the minerals from the hard water will build up in it, at some point negating the spot-preventative action of the solution (the reason to use distilled water in the first place, so make sure you don't over-saturate the solution) and, second, it will grow bacterial slime after a while.

While many here recommend against squeegeeing film, I have had good results with both (clean!) photo (viscose) sponges and fingers. If you use fingers, like I do now, make sure your hands are clean and that there is nothing whatsoever on the film that could cause a scratch. Wet your fingers in the distilled water/wetting agent solution you have just taken your negatives from and very lightly draw the film between them (one pass for each side with sheet film up to 5x7) to remove excess water. Hang to dry in a dust-free environment.

Best,

Doremus

_*_ said:

may i see just one pic showing such a "damaged" negative please? just one...?

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Quite frankly, I doubt that you'll get any, but this doesn't necessarily mean that you're safe. Sometimes defects can only be seen after decades and IMHO the cost of a lifetime supply of wetting agent (10€?) is tiny.

Anon Ymous said:

Quite frankly, I doubt that you'll get any, but this doesn't necessarily mean that you're safe. Sometimes defects can only be seen after decades and IMHO the cost of a lifetime supply of wetting agent (10€?) is tiny.

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you are absolutely right..
just reactions like from sirius glass give me a skin rash.
i am a little bit allergic to dogmatic behaviour of any kind.
it is more than reasonable to use wetting agent as it is designed for the purpose..
guess we all agree on that.
amen.

markbarendt said:

I use two sponges and sandwich the film and take one pass.

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The 'one pass' method for both sides of that film strip is doable, but I prefer to do each side separately. I am too afraid of a hard, tiny piece of debris clinging to one side of the sponge. But, again, doable. - David Lyga

David Lyga said:

The 'one pass' method for both sides of that film strip is doable, but I prefer to do each side separately. I am too afraid of a hard, tiny piece of debris clinging to one side of the sponge. But, again, doable. - David Lyga

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I don't see how the probability of damage changes.

I also haven't had this method damage any film.

Keep the sponges rinsed well.

OP reporting back.

Thanks again for everyones help.

So I used distilled water for the final rinse and cleand the film with two spongs afterwards.
I got rid of those horseshoe shaped spots but still have some long milkish/whitish marks over the film. They just become visible under direct light.

I red somewhere that I should just clean the remaining spots off with a glasses cloth.
Is this a good idea? Or should I soke the film in distilled water and give it another final rinse?

Cheers
Sam

I use distilled water for the final rinse only (just enough to cover the film) but no wetting agent as I was getting marks which disappeared when I stopped using wetting agent! Only use the distilled water once, though. (Cheap enough!)
Steve

samhuwyler said:

... So I used distilled water for the final rinse and cleand the film with two spongs afterwards.
I got rid of those horseshoe shaped spots but still have some long milkish/whitish marks over the film. They just become visible under direct light.

I red somewhere that I should just clean the remaining spots off with a glasses cloth.
Is this a good idea? Or should I soke the film in distilled water and give it another final rinse?

Cheers
Sam

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Hello Sam

If the marks aren't obvious they might not appear on a print. On the other hand, if they are a problem, then:

1) You can try leaving them a bit more in the wetting agent solution, like Doremus hinted.
2) You can try reducing the quantity of wetting agent in the solution. Many users have gotten better results with less wetting agent. I use Photo Flo 600 and supposedly need 1ml per 600ml of water. This is too much and leaves marks, just like the ones you decribed.
3) Don't wipe your negatives, just leave them to drip and dry. I used to "squeegee" my film between my (wetted in the same solution, clean) fingers. This resulted in fairly clean negatives, but I occasionally got long makrs - streaks.
4) Wipe your film. If I get any marks, I use a slightly damp and very clean Wettex sponge. It is the very thin (1mm) variety which comes in a roll. I only use it on the base (glossy) side of the film, not the (matte) emulsion side.

In the end, some experimentation will show what works for you.

Hope it helps.

_*_ said:

"ohh, modern times.. all these wonderful new products. went to the hairdresser last week and he has been using this amazing new hardener with chrome whatever to spray my blow-dry hairstyle. it has been resisting to the rain the whole week..
my eyes are sore though since a few days. i wonder.. you think it could be related, madge?"

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and all that chromium reeks havoc on the metal detectors at the airport when i fly !

_*_ said:

may i see just one pic showing such a "damaged" negative please? just one...?

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PE tells us not to use liquid soap. That is good enough for me. PhotoFlo and the equivalents are very, very inexpensive so I cannot see any reason to beat this to death.

Steve Roberts said:

I use distilled water for the final rinse only (just enough to cover the film) but no wetting agent as I was getting marks which disappeared when I stopped using wetting agent! Only use the distilled water once, though. (Cheap enough!)
Steve

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Dead on, distilled or deionised water 30 second dunk and swirl.

I use distilled water to mix up my stock solutions. I also use it for the final rinse with a wee bit of a wetting agent in it.

I've been using about 3 drops of photoflo in about 1000ml of distilled water for a long while now with zero problems. Drip dry. Back when I used more photoflo than that I had tons of issues.