IMPORTANT : New Initiative From HARMAN technology Limited : APUG Feedback Requested

mr rusty · Jul 19, 2013

Whilst I would not want to let my darkroom actually be used by others, nor is it really practical, I might be prepared to carrying out an occasional "demonstration" to a newbie who was starting from absolute scratch. Perhaps there could be a register of Ilford "users" who could, through Ilford, sign up that they were prepared to do this. A newbie might then ask Ilford if there are any registered users in their area prepared to give a demonstration. Ilford could then pass on the contact details for the newbie to contact directly. Ilford might even give out a little "incentive" to the registered users in return for this service. I think as this would be a totally uncommercial arrangement, it would not require insurances etc - no different from asking a mate from a club you might belong to to come round and see what you are doing. Also, using a central registration service could allow the registered user to state how often they were prepared to do a demonstration, which Ilford could keep track of.

problem I suppose is that I might not just be a registered user - I might also be an axe murderer and Ilford might send some unwitting victim to my dungeon................

Just a thought. Prepared to be shot down!

StoneNYC · Jul 19, 2013

TheFlyingCamera said:
The open darkroom time at the school where I teach costs $7/hour. This includes hardware and chemistry, but not paper, film or formal instruction. The darkroom supervisor is there to answer basic questions, but does not "teach" during that time. For formal instruction we offer dedicated classes that carry their own tuition fees.

Frankly, for the purposes of this effort, I think it would be better for Ilford to collect contact information, location, and pricing information about as many community/rental darkrooms as possible, publish this information in a central resource (on the Ilford website, perhaps???), and do some marketing outreach to said facilities.

Yes but that's limited to students... once you're out of the school you're f-ed, or if you've never been to that (or any) school you're completely F-ed... unless I'm wrong, but I sure know that the darkrooms around here (about 30 minutes away at least) only let students in...

Bob Carnie · Jul 19, 2013

Usually if you sign up for a night course you can get access.

StoneNYC said:
Yes but that's limited to students... once you're out of the school you're f-ed, or if you've never been to that (or any) school you're completely F-ed... unless I'm wrong, but I sure know that the darkrooms around here (about 30 minutes away at least) only let students in...

Ian Grant · Jul 19, 2013

Bob Carnie said:
Usually if you sign up for a night course you can get access.

Bob, thanks it's important to remember many colleges have under used facilities. I need to check my local college to see if the darkrooms are still there because I could use them and I'm on very good terms with the relevant Vice principal, I was head of another Department (long story) and turned a failing project around and we won awards.

I have planned to see if I can use the Colleg facilities but family issues have taken a toll. Essenyially most colleges in the UK run full time dat time courses and recreational veneing classes the darkroom was used twicw a week when I was there, still the case 2 years ago. So locally there's two other nights available a week (they close early on Fridays)/

Ian

Photo Engineer · Jul 19, 2013

I would be happy to teach tray and reel processing of B&W and color as well as color printing (If I can get the chemistry). I would be happy to let people use the darkroom as well for the cost of utilities (water and electricity).

The problem is that there is a liability issue with my home owners insurance. I believe that everyone in the US at least, has the same issue. I am willing to try to resolve this issue, but if someone uses my darkroom and my chemistry and is injured, I am responsible.

Does anyone have an answer to that?

PE

StoneNYC · Jul 19, 2013

Bob Carnie said:
Usually if you sign up for a night course you can get access.

That's more than $7/hour though, that's the point, to get there and make it financially do-able...

~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

Bob Carnie · Jul 19, 2013

depends upon how much you use the facilities.

StoneNYC said:
That's more than $7/hour though, that's the point, to get there and make it financially do-able...

~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

StoneNYC · Jul 19, 2013

Bob Carnie said:
depends upon how much you use the facilities.

Fairly certain most people who don't have a darkroom to begin with are not printing enough and not prepared to go from none to enough printing per semester to spend over $1,000 on a single class and still make it worth it.

Remember I live in CT, in Fairfield County, second most expensive place to live in the whole US...

So school classes are also expensive.

Even other places where they are probably $600 a semester is still too much just for darkroom access. Especially if they don't actually need to attend the class.

~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

Dinesh · Jul 19, 2013

Bob Carnie said:
Usually if you sign up for a night course you can get access.

You can always volunteer to be a lab ........... well, let's just say helper.

You cannot imagine how much I learned from Carnie by merely observing and flipping prints in developer. Your learning curve gets pretty steep when the first thing he gets you to do is flip a 20 x 24 print which will go for a tidy penny when completed.

StoneNYC · Jul 19, 2013

Dinesh said:
You can always volunteer to be a lab ........... well, let's just say helper.

You cannot imagine how much I learned from Carnie by merely observing and flipping prints in developer. Your learning curve gets pretty steep when the first thing he gets you to do is flip a 20 x 24 print which will go for a tidy penny when completed.

Lol how one my 20x24's Don't sell period? LOL

~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

silverhalides · Jul 19, 2013

Darkroom available in Vancouver.

I filled in the survey, and explained that I live in an artist live/work space (Vancouver zoning allows business licences for these units) and that it would be very inconvenient for me to give access to my darkroom (about 60% of my total area). As well, I am running a business here, and my darkroom is in daily use.
However, I am involved with a film maker's cooperative that provides public access to a darkroom. The Cineworks Analog Annex darkroom is now open to the public for a drop in fee for a 3 hour session ($8 for non-members, $5 for Cineworks members). This is a non-profit organization partly staffed by volunteers, so the fees are only to recover the cost of the chemicals supplied. The darkroom is,at present, available on Tuesday nights, but access will be expanded if enough people are interested.
Contact Ariel or Zoe at:
annex@cineworks.ca

BirgerA · Jul 20, 2013

I've answered the survey, and as most others I'm reluctant to let the general public into my home to use my rather small and cramped darkroom. I might let someone use it to learn the basics (under my supervision), but would probably suggest the use of the only open darkroom I know of in Oslo, Dead Link Removed

clayne · Jul 20, 2013

silverhalides said:
The Cineworks Analog Annex darkroom is now open to the public for a drop in fee for a 3 hour session ($8 for non-members, $5 for Cineworks members).

8$/3hrs. That's a great deal!

dr5chrome · Jul 20, 2013

PE - you can rent your space with a waver or terms of use. Usually insurance companies frown upon 'business' use in your home. You can buy separate 'business' liability coverage - but most home insurance wont cover your photo-stuff if they find out you are using it for business.

dw

Photo Engineer said:
I would be happy to teach tray and reel processing of B&W and color as well as color printing (If I can get the chemistry). I would be happy to let people use the darkroom as well for the cost of utilities (water and electricity).

The problem is that there is a liability issue with my home owners insurance. I believe that everyone in the US at least, has the same issue. I am willing to try to resolve this issue, but if someone uses my darkroom and my chemistry and is injured, I am responsible.

Does anyone have an answer to that?

PE

Photo Engineer · Jul 20, 2013

Thanks. I'm working on the issues.

PE

Enrico Scotece · Jul 21, 2013

www.thinknegative.com.au - darkroom with workshop/courses program, lab facility

I have filled in the survey, yes do contact me. I am situated in Sydney, Australia.

I have been running a community darkroom since 2007 (www.thinknegative.com.au) and have just expanded in January of this year. We have been building a community of darkroom users (b+w only) for years now and would love to see some support from manufacturers. I maintain the space and the whole thing was funded by me. It has though only survived as a community darkroom through dedicated users. Users need support too and so I act as an assistant and mentor where needed. All ages, all welcome.
I have public liability insurance also, no problem there.

Having said this, you can't just let anyone off the street come in and help themselves - best way to curtail this issue was/is to have an intro session and then go from there. I know many people who want to use the medium and get discouraged only because they are not taught how to use the materials properly and don't know what questions to ask~!

Thank you Ilford! Do make contact!

Enrico Scotece
www.thinknegative.com.au

Truzi · Jul 23, 2013

I filled out the survey.
My "darkroom" is a bathroom, and I'd be leery of having strangers over. However, I often loan out developing equipment and found this has been quite helpful to people getting their feet wet. I also give them what little training I am capable of and then refer them to APUG.

John Wiegerink · Jul 23, 2013

dr5chrome said:
PE - you can rent your space with a waver or terms of use. Usually insurance companies frown upon 'business' use in your home. You can buy separate 'business' liability coverage - but most home insurance wont cover your photo-stuff if they find out you are using it for business.

dw

Makes ya wanna run right out and hug an Insurance Agent don't it! I'm about insurance broke now and do not need anymore premium notices. I'm thinking of joining a local club in my hometown and then maybe let just members I knew use my darkroom. The club just started about three months ago and is just about 100% digital, but I'm sure film would be welcome. We'll see I guess!

WayneStevenson · Jul 23, 2013

I feel similar hesitation in letting strangers into my home. My home darkroom is in a basement crawl space. Not so inviting. And there's always things that can go missing.

However, I can easily convert my studio in the city into a temporary darkroom for educational purposes. And I think that would be great.

Michael Lloyd · Jul 24, 2013

New guy here. I just started shooting and developing 4x5 (Ilford Delta 100). When I say just started I mean just started like I've shot 8 sheets of film, screwed up 6 during developing because I didn't put the film in the tank right and the sheets laid on top of one another, and of the two negatives that I managed to develop right I got one good scan and print. One was grossly over-exposed. The exposure issue was the result of bad habits picked up from shooting digital since 2006. I figure it can only get better from here.

I'm really glad that I started with Ilford. I like a company that supports their users.

And I filled out the survey. I said Maybe on the "would I use someone else's darkroom" part. Seems to me a darkroom is like my reloading bench in that it is a very personal space. I wouldn't want some stranger in there moving my stuff around.

John Wiegerink · Jul 24, 2013

I'm really glad that I started with Ilford. I like a company that supports their users.

And I filled out the survey. I said Maybe on the "would I use someone else's darkroom" part. Seems to me a darkroom is like my reloading bench in that it is a very personal space. I wouldn't want some stranger in there moving my stuff around.[/QUOTE]

Very good comparison! Have somebody pour Winchester 231 pistol powder back into your Winchester 785 container for rifle powder. Your .30-06 will never be the same! Of course your body won't either.
I'd only let somebody I knew and trusted work alone in my darkroom since I have some very nice collectible cameras in there along with some fine enlarging lenses.

jvo · Jul 25, 2013

something here...

survey done...

there's something in this idea... the couchsurfing of darkrooms! resource for newbies to film? directory of darkroom buddies? somehow sharing knowledge will make a difference. very much worth pursuing.

sabir · Jul 30, 2013

Thanks for the initiative, Simon. I've taken the survey as well.

My darkroom is in a temporary location at my office and has some access restrictions. I may set up a permanent one soon at a more convenient location - which I'd be happy to share. I don't mind listing my darkroom though.

Moreover, I will be very willing to share my knowledge and get like minded people together for discussions.

I moderate a group called BangBW in Bangalore, we are a group of B&W photographers that meet each week for a shoot and discussions. Our present problem is availability of Ilford film, chemistry and paper. it is not always convenient to order from overseas or wait for a friend to carry on their return to India. It would be great if Ilford can address this problem.

railwayman3 · Jul 30, 2013

John Wiegerink said:
Makes ya wanna run right out and hug an Insurance Agent don't it! I'm about insurance broke now and do not need anymore premium notices. I'm thinking of joining a local club in my hometown and then maybe let just members I knew use my darkroom. The club just started about three months ago and is just about 100% digital, but I'm sure film would be welcome. We'll see I guess!

You're a little harsh on insurers....don't forget that there is a potential liability to anyone, even friends, visiting your home for any reason should they have an accident. Add in if anything went wrong in a darkroom (water + electricity? Chemicals...dermatitis?), you may be glad of proper insurance cover. Small risk, I know, but Sodd's law......

analoguey · Jul 30, 2013

Simon R Galley said:
Dear Apugger,

We recently invited followers of our facebook page to take part in a survey which 1,700 photographers completed on-line, it told us amongst other things that well over 30% of those who took part have no access to a darkroom, but would love to have access, if it was available near where they live.

The survey was designed to try and understand just how many photographers shoot film but are unable to access darkroom facilities. It is our belief that without darkroom access those shooting film don't enjoy the craft experience to the full extent, and of course miss out on the magic of the darkroom.

We want to try and create a worldwide web site, which HARMAN will invest money and resource in, which brings those with a darkroom into contact with those who do not, our belief and experience of APUG members is that they would wish to support such an idea and I have inserted a link below for you to take part in a survey that asks key questions. We want to hear and understand your views and opinions and test out our 'concept' in the real world, so if you think the idea is great, or mad ! please take the survey, all individual feedback is kept confidential but we will of course share an overview of our findings with the APUG community in due course.

If we go ahead with the idea we intend to give ABSOLUTE TOP BILLING to the amazing people who offer HIRE DARKROOMS and COMMUNITY darkrooms around the world who have already done so much for supporting our craft.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/APUGsurvey

With Many Thanks

Simon. ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

Thats a great initiative from Ilford! Could we also ask that you make your films and chemistry available in India? I am having to either import or ask friends to bring them over!
(Oh and yes, I filled up the survey!)
Also as others have suggested, why not invest more in APUG itself?

IMPORTANT : New Initiative From HARMAN technology Limited : APUG Feedback Requested

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