IMPORTANT : New Initiative From HARMAN technology Limited : APUG Feedback Requested

Paul Glover · Jul 17, 2013

clayne said:
For the people who don't want to lend out their private darkrooms I still think you should consider supervised access - ie tutoring newbies and getting them into it.

In a couple of years I'd consider that (mostly because I won't be a complete and utter n00b at it myself by then)!

Pinecreekboy · Jul 17, 2013

There is a very nice community darkroom in Williamsport Pa: http://www.keepmeinthedark.com

madgardener · Jul 17, 2013

I think its a great idea. It would be wonderful to find a community darkroom. I understand there are some here in Allentown/Bethlehem PA, but I have no clue where to even start looking for them. This website idea is wonderful.

bdial · Jul 17, 2013

I did the survey on behalf of Vermont Center for Photography which has a darkroom available for group or individual use.

Valerie · Jul 17, 2013

I filled out the survey. I have had people come over to work in my darkroom. In fact, this weekend we are having a small caffenol developing workshop! But I am very careful about who I invite and would not be comfortable with anyone working alone there (hey! They might empty the beer fridge!) I would really love to see someone set up a community darkroom in this area and would gladly help towards that end.

Stephen Frizza · Jul 18, 2013

I would certainly help equip a public darkroom here in sydney with free enlargers, film and paper processors etc... I have a Lot of equipment on standby for future service or spare parts.

Trond · Jul 18, 2013

I've filled out the survey. My darkroom is also in my home, so I don't wish to rent it out on a regular basis to strangers. But it is important to keep the craft alive, so I have started to arrange tutorials for people interested in learning. I may also lend it to people I know.

Trond

IndifferentCamera · Jul 18, 2013

Survey answered.

it told us amongst other things that well over 30% of those who took part have no access to a darkroom

I wonder how they view their negs? Suppose it doesn't matter, as long as we are united.

TheToadMen · Jul 18, 2013

IndifferentCamera said:
... that well over 30% of those who took part have no access to a darkroom ...

Click to expand...

I wonder how they view their negs? Suppose it doesn't matter, as long as we are united.

Scanning themselves or a lab for developing + CD with images, I presume.

pcsaba1981 · Jul 18, 2013

For me, a hobby B&W guy, the biggest issue is scanning. Get a negative to be developed, scanned and printed is 15£, which is huge money.

Available, "high" quality and cheap scanner: this is my priority, darkroom is number two.

Scanning is the reason that I don't develop myself, but frankly, 5-6£ for scanning a negative is too much.
If it'd be cheaper or less painful, I'd shoot much-much more.

Darkroom would be nice to make some good prints. But scanning is the first issue: scanning is like contact prints before digital age.

clayne · Jul 18, 2013

pcsaba1981 said:
For me, a hobby B&W guy, the biggest issue is scanning. Get a negative to be developed, scanned and printed is 15£, which is huge money.

Available, "high" quality and cheap scanner: this is my priority, darkroom is number two.

Scanning is the reason that I don't develop myself, but frankly, 5-6£ for scanning a negative is too much.
If it'd be cheaper or less painful, I'd shoot much-much more.

Darkroom would be nice to make some good prints. But scanning is the first issue: scanning is like contact prints before digital age.

Generally agreed, but did you know you know you a: do not need an enlarger for a contact sheet, b: doing a contact sheet on typical 8x10 RC paper is quite fast, provided you can get a room light tight and work out a reasonable light timing.

In other news:

Survey done!

Man, I just can't appreciate Ilford enough. There's nothing like supporting a company who's entire intent is on QUALITY products and not absolutely steered by the bottom line. This is such a rarity in today's economy and big business commodification of absolutely everything. Thank you Simon, and thank you Ilford! (Thank you Kodak, Fuji, and Agfa as well).

StoneNYC · Jul 18, 2013

I wish there was a "I develop in my sink and wouldn't mind teaching newbs how to process in a tank" option. Haha

~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

Ian Grant · Jul 18, 2013

StoneNYC said:
I wish there was a "I develop in my sink and wouldn't mind teaching newbs how to process in a tank" option. Haha

~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly what I do on occasions, particulary when abroad. There is a need to show people how to process in limited space, I've regularly processed while camping as well.

Ian

TheToadMen · Jul 18, 2013

Filled out the survey. I would like to teach newbies and let them use my darkroom.
Would also like to combine it with a small pinhole workshop as well.

Steve Smith · Jul 18, 2013

Ian Grant said:
Simon's point about giving support to community darkrooms is good but many have closed (in the UK)

Not sure if it would be classed as a community darkroom but the only one around here is the one at Dimbola Lodge (where we did the albumen printing workshop). It doesn't get used a lot which is a pity.

With a bit of extra funding (lottery money or something similar) it could be useful. I would probably use it myself if it was affordable, despite having an enlarger at home.

I would love to see Ilford sponsoring Dimbola. It seems very elitist in its management at the moment. Sometimes you would think the management are running a top London museum/gallery by their attitude. It needs to become more of a community based establishment.

Steve.

Molli · Jul 18, 2013

Nobody in their right mind would want to be shut into a small dark room with me (where I have ready access to sharp things like scissors... and a guillotine! ), nevertheless, I was happy to fill out your survey.

Your presence here, Simon, is a very big part of why so many of us love Ilford products and do whatever we can to support the company.

Alex Muir · Jul 18, 2013

EDIT: but I can see how a darkroom is a very personal thing (home ones) and being one of the super tidy kind of person with my stuff, even if I had a darkroom I might not want to share it as probably no one would have as clean a room as I would haha.

I've processed enough by now that my dev tanks and reels should show some signs of use, but they look brand new.

~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

In this respect, we are very similar. Control of your equipment and processes is the best way to ensure the quality of the end-product.
Raising the profile of community darkroom facilities is an excellent idea, and perhaps some form of support from Harman/Ilford would be possible?
Alex.

Newt_on_Swings · Jul 18, 2013

I took the survey. My darkroom is my own little slice of personal space that I get to be alone in and relax with some good tunes blasting while printing. I teach in a school darkroom throughout the week and I am fine with that. With my own setup that I have painstakingly built up over the years I would be concerned with total newbies using it as I've seen all the mistakes one can make with chemicals and papers. That being said I have shown close friends and family the process, though I never left them alone unsupervised.

dr5chrome · Jul 18, 2013

nice, but...

Simon - While this is strictly my opinion - Those of us that have darkrooms available for outside use, usually end up dumping the idea. Why? No interest.

The service we offer provides no use of a darkroom for the processed film [B&W-slides], yet volume continues to go down.

We have a "full-blown" B&W neg darkroom. [We even recently sold our 1840 10x10.] It is fully equipped: ILFORD-RC printer, fibre-print dryer, full sized darkroom sink, durst 138, winglynch and enterprise film processors + rack and 3.5gal-tanks & SS-reels. 35mm~8x10 neg film capable[film process]. to 20x24 print capable.

We have watched a few darkroom rental places 'close' in recent years, and a few that are in the same position as us. We would rent our darkroom out, for certain! The problem is, no one would pay to use it..

At least in Denver, I don't see this ever working. Id be happy to rent out our neg/print darkroom. I think it would just sit empty.. as it has the day we closed it down - no one wanted to pay the price for the service.

I have always advocated, that who is left in the photo industry should group together to save what is left. It's turned into a dog-eat-dog arena and the god-complex scenario..

..nice idea though. It is good to dream.

Simon R Galley said:
Dear Apugger,

We recently invited followers of our facebook page to take part in a survey which 1,700 photographers completed on-line, it told us amongst other things that well over 30% of those who took part have no access to a darkroom, but would love to have access, if it was available near where they live.

The survey was designed to try and understand just how many photographers shoot film but are unable to access darkroom facilities. It is our belief that without darkroom access those shooting film don't enjoy the craft experience to the full extent, and of course miss out on the magic of the darkroom.

We want to try and create a worldwide web site, which HARMAN will invest money and resource in, which brings those with a darkroom into contact with those who do not, our belief and experience of APUG members is that they would wish to support such an idea and I have inserted a link below for you to take part in a survey that asks key questions. We want to hear and understand your views and opinions and test out our 'concept' in the real world, so if you think the idea is great, or mad ! please take the survey, all individual feedback is kept confidential but we will of course share an overview of our findings with the APUG community in due course.

If we go ahead with the idea we intend to give ABSOLUTE TOP BILLING to the amazing people who offer HIRE DARKROOMS and COMMUNITY darkrooms around the world who have already done so much for supporting our craft.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/APUGsurvey

With Many Thanks

Simon. ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

walbergb · Jul 19, 2013

Simon,
I filled out the survey and found it geared entirely toward the home-based darkroom. Nothing wrong with that, but in your introduction you mention "community" darkrooms, too. I use a community darkroom (local art gallery--and a mighty fine one at that without getting into details). How do community darkrooms fit into your plans? I'm sure my local art gallery would be happy to welcome analog photographers and to list its facilities through your project if it was approached. Community darkrooms avoid the liability issue and the issue of having strangers (or non-strangers if the that is the case) coming into one's home.

pdeeh · Jul 19, 2013

I don't have a permanent darkroom so I print rarely and can't learn fast enough.

Perhaps a helpful extension to the idea would be a "mentoring scheme" so that rather than just give access to a darkroom, supervised access with an element of tuition is on offer.

I'm convinced a couple of hours a month from someone who really knows how to make a good print (not necessarily a "master printer" ) would make a big difference to the speed with which craft can be acquired.

PeterB · Jul 19, 2013

Simon R Galley said:
please remember : HIRE DARKROOMS and COMMUNITY DARKROOMS will get number one TOP BILLING now and forever...

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

You have hit the nail on the head here Simon. Given the many reservations expressed by folks about sharing their own personal darkrooms, I really think the best way for this idea to work is to focus on supporting existing plus establishing NEW Community and Hire darkrooms. The shared spaces might not get as well looked after as some of our personal darkrooms, but at least it encourages the craft and it supports ILFORD through increased sales.

!!! Congratulations ILFORD and Simon on such lateral thinking !!!

darkosaric · Jul 19, 2013

I was thinking - how much would be ok price for two-three hours of darkroom rent? Let's say in some photography club, with all equipment except chemistry included. USA or somewhere in west Europe?

TheFlyingCamera · Jul 19, 2013

darkosaric said:
I was thinking - how much would be ok price for two-three hours of darkroom rent? Let's say in some photography club, with all equipment except chemistry included. USA or somewhere in west Europe?

The open darkroom time at the school where I teach costs $7/hour. This includes hardware and chemistry, but not paper, film or formal instruction. The darkroom supervisor is there to answer basic questions, but does not "teach" during that time. For formal instruction we offer dedicated classes that carry their own tuition fees.

Frankly, for the purposes of this effort, I think it would be better for Ilford to collect contact information, location, and pricing information about as many community/rental darkrooms as possible, publish this information in a central resource (on the Ilford website, perhaps???), and do some marketing outreach to said facilities.

Simon R Galley · Jul 19, 2013

Dear All,

We really do appreciate all the feedback ( and other related ideas ) a big thank you, we are filtering, understanding, and seeing other possibilities as well.

Please keep it coming the more 'opinions' and thoughts the better.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

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