I'm looking for a TLR

srmcnamara · Aug 15, 2009

Hi, all. I think I am looking for a 6x6 TLR camera or a 35mm rangefinder just for kicks. Since this would be in no way my primary camera (4x5) or my secondary camera (eos 3) or even my tertiary camera (digital) my set of requirements is different.

First and foremost I need it cheap. Definitely under 100 bucks and much cheaper if possible.

Second, I want it to work. Obviously not Rolleiflex reliability but I want to be able to use it and not worry.

Thirdly, it would be great if it could be something unique and interesting. Hopefully with images to match.

My primary goal in getting a new camera is to shake things up a little bit--right now I think my photography is a little too "straight" or static and I think a different manner of shooting could really help alter the way I see things.

anyways, thanks for the help. If you think I'm utterly wrong in looking for a tlr let me know that as well, I'm a big boy, I can handle it.

jovo · Aug 15, 2009

For the price you intend to pay, you're not likely to find anything "better" than a Holga or the like. But, if you're looking for something to shake things up a bit, why not? See the marvelous photos made by Andrew Moxom with his "Great Hassel" camera which is a toy camera lens on a Hasselblad body. There's lots of good work to be made with such a machine. Good luck.

fotch · Aug 15, 2009

You will need a lot of luck to get something like you want for that budget.
However, you never know, good luck finding something.

srmcnamara · Aug 15, 2009

Thanks for the name, I really like Mr. Moxom's work. I think I'm aware that I'm not going to get anything much better than a Holga although I don't think I can afford a holga and I really don't want a holga. Maybe what I'm looking for is an underappreciated classic or something. I saw a super ricohflex mentioned in another thread.

elekm · Aug 15, 2009

You might want to check out a Kodak Reflex or Reflex II (downside: 620 film so you have to respool / pain in the neck).

Also, there should be some inexpensive Voigtlander Brilliant models that will fit the bill. Also, check out a Reflekta and the Peerflekta (which I believe is a Reflekta sold under the Peerless name).

The prices of Rolleis are way up at the moment. If you wanted to try something different, you could always try a 6x6 folding camera -- your price range would easily get you into a Zeiss Ikon Ikonta or Zeiss Ikon Nettar or perhaps a Voigtlander Perkeo or Voigtlander Bessa 66 (although prices on these can be unjustifiably high -- my opinion), or maybe an Agfa Isolette II or III.

In a 35mm rangefinder, you're probably looking at something Japanese from the 1960s or 1970s. Try to get one that's been serviced, because they're definitely going to need new foam seals.

One camera that's retro and dependable is the Konica I with a fixed 50mm Hexar lens that is quite good.

The choice in the under-$100 35mm rangefinder market is quite expansive, especially if you don't need interchangeable lenses.

I wonder how long before someone recommends a Leica or other cameras that are going to be out of your price range.

mgb74 · Aug 15, 2009

Well, here's a couple of examples of my more recent acquisitions. They seem to function fine though I have not yet run film through them.

Cirroflex 6x6 TLR (120) with Wollensak lens. I think I paid $20 and it came with a bunch of expired film.

Kodak Tourist II 6x9 folder (620, so I have to respool) with the better Anaston (4 element, f4.5) lens and Kodamatic shutter. I paid $35.

Both were found locally and are good, though not bragging, deals. Certainly fit in the "for kicks" category.

Pumal · Aug 15, 2009

You could also take a look at the Yashicamat.

archphoto · Aug 15, 2009

I would look at local flee-markets, garage sales, old camera stores in the neighbourhood.

When you expect it the least you bump into something, just keep your eyes open for it.

Peter

brofkand · Aug 15, 2009

I have a Voigtlander Brillant, which while not a true TLR (the viewing lens isn't coupled to the taking lens, so you have to guess at focusing), is fun to use.

I think I paid less than $20 shipped for mine from eBay a year or so ago. It's a very old camera, I believe it was made in the late 30s.

DLM · Aug 15, 2009

I second that suggestion to browse flea markets, garage sales, and check thrift stores too. I've picked up many interesting cameras from the thrift stores, including a Graflex 22 TLR for $5. It's really rough but still works just fine, and was a perfect way for me to finally get to try out a TLR. Other than that, I'd say save a little more $$, because with a budget of $150-200 you should easily be able to find something decent, maybe a Minolta Autocord or something along those lines.

rawhead · Aug 16, 2009

I picked up a Yashica Mat for $40 via Craig's List with a 75mm f3.5 Yashinon lens. Takes great pictures, and well within your budget.

ntenny · Aug 16, 2009

srmcnamara said:
Hi, all. I think I am looking for a 6x6 TLR camera or a 35mm rangefinder just for kicks. Since this would be in no way my primary camera (4x5) or my secondary camera (eos 3) or even my tertiary camera (digital) my set of requirements is different.

First and foremost I need it cheap. Definitely under 100 bucks and much cheaper if possible.

It's gonna be hard to find a worthwhile TLR that cheaply. Some of the fixed-lens rangefinders from the 1970s go that cheap on eBay---I've gotten two of them in the US$10 range. (I broke the first one trying to fix it; the second is working like a champ.)

If I were trying to get into a TLR good enough to be usable on an extreme budget, I might look at an early Rolleicord with a Triotar lens. A later one, something like a Rolleicord III, can be an outstanding camera but is an unlikely find---not impossible---at your price point.

-NT

AgentX · Aug 16, 2009

Find a Yashica or a Minolta Autocord if no older Rolleis (automats or rolleicords) are within your range.

And there are several Mamiya C220s (or C3s and other olders in the series) turning up on Ebay for $100-$130 or so. Fantastic cameras.

Wouldn't bother with a Lubitel or a Seagull. The lubitels are OK if you just want a square photo on the cheap with a funky toy camera, but they're not exactly a precision instrument. I like the Seagull lens, but the nightmare stories about lack of any reliability scare me off.

alexmacphee · Aug 16, 2009

For your budget, you may get lucky and pick up one of the earlier Yashica TLRs such as the Yashica-12, a predecessor of the Yashica-124 and 124G, with the difference that the Y-12 doesn't take 220 rollfilm, just 120, which is fine. It's well made, and the Yashinon lens is a very good performer. The 124 and 124G models sell for anywhere from twice to three times your budget, but the 12 can be picked up for very little, yet optically there's no difference, and the build difference is slight.

For 35mm rangefinders, you're spoiled for choice, though you may need to factor in a CLA, which will of course break your budget. However, for sheer fun yet great reliability and pocketability, it's hard to beat the diminutive Olympus 35RC. It has a cult following, one could say, but for all the right photographic reasons. I also like the Yashica Minister range, and if you want to give up manual control for aperture priority auto, the Yashica 35 Electro series cameras have great, sharp, colourful lenses.

For sure, you'll need almost certainly to replace the light seals, but that's half an hour's easy work and around $10 with a light seal kit from Jon Goodman (there are others, but I've used Jon's kit and it's the business). One of these kits will do many cameras. He sells on eBay as 'interslice'.

Although it's not what you've asked for, you can have much fun with an old folder, and its capability will surprise most. For reliability and the best chance of bellows that are light tight, at low cost, look out for one of the economy Zeiss folders, like the Nettar or the Ikonta. You've a range of 6x4.5, 6x6, and 6x9 to choose from. Old bellows cameras are very pocketable, which is a great asset, and they make people smile when they see one in your hands, which is an even greater asset.

Necator · Aug 16, 2009

On the rangefinder front, you might want to look at the Yashica 35 GSN. You should easily be able to fit one within your budget. The Yashinon 45mm f/1.7 lens they are fittet with are sharp as hell. The camera works in aperture priority mode, which I find very convenient when using it for street or travel photography, but some people miss the opportunity to set the shutter time manually.

I have 2 of these cameras (one original 35, and a 35 GSN), and have a bit of a love/hate relationship with them. I love the end result, but I hate the focusing mechanism, and the fact that the minimum focusing distance is 0,8 meters (I would like to get closer).

You can read more about the Yashica 35's here, including which non mercury battery you can use as replacement. If you get one, do remember to check that the meter is working, if not, the only shutter speed available would be 1/500.

alexmacphee · Aug 16, 2009

Necator's suggestions are excellent, and just to avoid confusion, the GSN annd GTN cameras are part of the 35 Electro series. There's no readout of the shutter speed in these cameras, but it's possible to work it out fairly easily. Also in this group of cameras is the Yashica MG-1, which is a simpler model of the 35 Electros, with fixed parallax correction marks in the viewfinder as opposed to the automatic parallax correcting movement of the frame in the Electros. Necator is not under-stating the lens capability ; its reputation is justified.

The battery situation is interesting. Although these cameras took 5.6v mercury batteries, Yashicas have voltage regulators in the circuits, so the nominal voltage isn't important. Any battery, or combination of batteries, that gives 6v, will work perfectly, without the need for worrying about exposure compensation of any kind. This is a big plus, and something that separates these models from other makes of the period. I readily use my GSN for slide film, with reliable results.

If you want an even faster lens, there's the option of the Yashica Lynx 14e. The cell here only powers the meter, the shutter/aperture is under manual control, and the lens, as the model name indicates, is a light-sucking f/1.4.

mablo · Aug 16, 2009

I recently bought a YashicaMat 124G for 75£ from the evil Bay. Meter is not working but I couldn't care less. And one more vote from me for the Yashica 35 Electro rangefinders.

mcgrattan · Aug 16, 2009

MWClassic, in the UK, have recently had some very cheap Rolleis [under £100], so sometimes even those are available on a tight budget. Yashicamats or older Yashicas are often quite cheap. Don't forget Rolleicords.

Lubitels are, as already mentioned, slightly funky toys but I've taken some pretty good shots with one -- I'd defy anyone looking at the negative to distinguish it from one shot on any other budget TLR. The lens is a _lot_ better stopped down and with a hood attached than a lot of cult 'toy' cameras. That said, focusing them is a pain.

Another possibility is the Czech made Flexarets. Those are real TLRs in a way that the Lubitel is not.

DBP · Aug 16, 2009

Another vote for the CiroFlex or Graflex 22, which are both well within your budget and very capable cameras. Or how about an Argus C-3 to open the door to 35mm rangefinders and start lots of conversations? Or even the A model if you want something a little smaller and simpler.

Rick A · Aug 16, 2009

If you really want a fun 6x6 TLR, then find a Kodak DuaflexII and either shave down 120 spools or respool. Its geared for ISO 100 or 125, has three f-stops with fixed shutter speed or timed for long exposure, also shutter recocking for multi exposure. The shutter will self cock with film wind. These are VERY inexpensive(under $20 USD) and capable of producing incredible negs.
Rick

RobertV · Aug 16, 2009

Hopefully just within your budget:
Yashica Mat (124-G), Minolta autocord or maybe the Czech Flexaret (see picture).
Further Mamiya C220/C330 but above cameras are more portable then the heavy Mamiyas.

elekm · Aug 16, 2009

Those prices are in euros, correct?

That art deco Rolleicord looks very nice.

RobertV · Aug 16, 2009

KCz (Czech Krones) so an average Flexaret is about KCz 2500 which is Euro 95,00

So that fancy Rolleicord is Euro 325,00 (KCz 8500).

elekm · Aug 16, 2009

Ah, OK. Those prices are very reasonable, I think. The art deco Rolleicord is about right for a camera shop.

RobertV · Aug 16, 2009

Well, I keep my Yashica Mat 124-G in mint condition complete with bag and two bay I filters (Yellow + IR).
The costs were Eur. 100,00 and the CLA Eur. 75,00 but everything is in a perfect shape.

and here an example in IR photography (Rollei IR 820/400 film):

I'm looking for a TLR

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