I'm looking for a 6x7 rangefinder, need help choosing.

EdSawyer · Nov 28, 2012

The Mamiya lenses are narrower diameter than most all the canon EOS lenses, and lighter too I think, so on balance, a smaller package than a 5D and lenses.

The meter is the same between the 7 and 7II. The only differences are the 7II offers is a polarization layer on the rangefinder window (debatable value - really not noticable unless shooting into the sun), and it has a multi-exposure capability. The negatives are the 7II's darkslide wind lever is seriously flawed and far inferior to the one on the regular 7. I've had both bodies at the same time, and later sold the 7II as it didn't really offer anything over the 7.

All the lenses are great. The close-up adapter is a bit kludgy but optically excellent. The polaroid back is best if dedicated to a 2nd body. It's not really feasible to switch it on and off a single body to interchange with normal film use.

Bottom line: the Mamiya 7 is easily the best 6x7 rangefinder available, and I think in many ways the best medium format system available. (I have an RZ system as well, and that is better for the few things the Mamiya 7 is not great at: long lenses, close-ups, portraits, fast lenses).

-Ed

revdocjim · Nov 28, 2012

I have the New Mamiya 6 and the Fuji GF670. I would strongly recommend either but realize that the 6 won't fit your needs since it shoots 6x6. But it is such a sweet camera! And much more portable than the 7 or 7ii because of the collapsing lens mount. Also no need for external VF. The lenses are excellent as well. And of course the GF670 is limited to one lens, but it is still a fabulous camera to work with. I also have the very old Mamiya Press Super 23, and it is really fun to shoot. But admittedly it is very big and bulky for a rangefinder. But it does have exchangeable lenses and exchangeable backs for a variety of frame sizes. You mentioned older Fuji rangefinders with exchangeable lenses. Fuji has been making top notch medium format rangefinders for a long time but the only 6x7 one that has exchangeable lenses is the very early GM670 along with the G690 and GL690. These all date back to the late 60's and early 70's. Everything after that had fixed lenses.

You asked about 645. If you do choose that route there are more options but first you have to decide if you are ok with the smaller frame.

StoneNYC · Nov 28, 2012

EdSawyer said:
The Mamiya lenses are narrower diameter than most all the canon EOS lenses, and lighter too I think, so on balance, a smaller package than a 5D and lenses.

The meter is the same between the 7 and 7II. The only differences are the 7II offers is a polarization layer on the rangefinder window (debatable value - really not noticable unless shooting into the sun), and it has a multi-exposure capability. The negatives are the 7II's darkslide wind lever is seriously flawed and far inferior to the one on the regular 7. I've had both bodies at the same time, and later sold the 7II as it didn't really offer anything over the 7.

All the lenses are great. The close-up adapter is a bit kludgy but optically excellent. The polaroid back is best if dedicated to a 2nd body. It's not really feasible to switch it on and off a single body to interchange with normal film use.

Bottom line: the Mamiya 7 is easily the best 6x7 rangefinder available, and I think in many ways the best medium format system available. (I have an RZ system as well, and that is better for the few things the Mamiya 7 is not great at: long lenses, close-ups, portraits, fast lenses).

-Ed

Ed, the 7's meter is a spot meter, the 7 II's is a weighted average meter, VERY different.

I worry about the dark slide tab as it does seem breakable, BUT I found the 7's to be hard to turn which I'm sure is why they made the 7 II's with a flip out.

I agree the Polaroid back isn't really that useful. It's great for checking focus as it has a sort of ground glass, but they could have found a way to add some kind of dark slide so you don't expose it when you take it off.

I like the multi exposure button, I've used it.

More than anything I like the panoramic adapter that lets you use 35mm film in the body, have some REALY nice pano's from mine.

~Stone

The Noteworthy Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

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jcjohnnyrob4316 · Nov 30, 2012

The most difficult love affair.

Greetings all! I very much enjoy the the forum. Hats off to all who contribute so much great content. 5 years ago I bought
a Linhof Technika 70 outfit for $1490.00. It had the three original lenses, (53mm, 100mm & 150mm), with cam, roll film back,
ground glass, metal case, filters and shade. It became the greatest love affair/mental and physical wrestling match of my photo
existance!! I mean, Demands! Demands! Demands! What kind of demands? Demands for excellence from me!
I mean, I had to step up! I would come home, after a shoot, with my rags, (called exposures), and the T-70 would just
look at me. But, by golly, bye and bye, I got better!! It was like Fred Astair said about dancing. Hard work, but loving every minute.
Of course, the person is the photographer, not the camera. But the right match can drive you like a "strad". The camera is easy to use. But it is so versitile, that you are drawn into "THE WORKOUT!" Your brain is squeeezzzed to step up! And when your done, in an heap of sweat, you are sooo thankful, as you reflect upon the day that has passed. All the best!

osprey48 · Nov 30, 2012

I fully endorse the Mamiya 7II, having used one for 8 years. The 65mm lens has become my default lens, as its a wide angle without the need for a viewfinder, but for landscapes I use the 43mm with finder, which gives you dramatic shots with plenty of foreground, or sky.Print quality with all lenses is amazing, and I print up to 16x12

EdSawyer · Nov 30, 2012

No, both meters are the same. Check the mamiya documentation and post it here if you can prove otherwise. They didn't change the meter. They are both averaging meters, but the area of averaging is fairly small, and varies in it's relationship to what the lens sees. However they are the same between both cameras.

I find the tab easy enough to turn, and no risk of breakage as there is with the II. If I had kept the II, I'd have gotten the brass replacement tab from the guy in Italy that makes them.

-Ed

StoneNYC said:
Ed, the 7's meter is a spot meter, the 7 II's is a weighted average meter, VERY different.

I worry about the dark slide tab as it does seem breakable, BUT I found the 7's to be hard to turn which I'm sure is why they made the 7 II's with a flip out.

StoneNYC · Nov 30, 2012

EdSawyer said:
No, both meters are the same. Check the mamiya documentation and post it here if you can prove otherwise. They didn't change the meter. They are both averaging meters, but the area of averaging is fairly small, and varies in it's relationship to what the lens sees. However they are the same between both cameras.

I find the tab easy enough to turn, and no risk of breakage as there is with the II. If I had kept the II, I'd have gotten the brass replacement tab from the guy in Italy that makes them.

-Ed

Strange, when I originally read up on it the main thing that pushed me to get the 7II was the improved meter... It's very strange not finding any info on that now... Hmmm...

Well I like the 7II the flip down curtain winder is nice for me because I can change lenses without having to take it off the tripod and the cable release is in a nicer spot, and the black color (i find the other colors very gaudy) it's all preference really...

Ok I concede ...

~Stone

The Noteworthy Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

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Chris Giles · Dec 12, 2012

Ok so here's where I've got with this.

I went through the motions with a Mamiya 7ii but kept being beaten on price via ebay by sniping software, in the end this appears to be a good thing. I've now got my sights of a Technorama 6x12.
I went to an exhibition in London and saw Luc Delahaye's '132nd' which appears shot in 6x12 medium format. The damn print is 18ft wide. That's where I want to be.

So whilst I'm waiting for one to drop into my lap I've purchased a H1 body and a couple of extra film backs.

Those Technorama's look elegant, wondered about the Horseman 612 but it doesn't appeal for some reason.

polyglot · Dec 12, 2012

A technorama is quite a different beast altogether, it's a technical camera and mostly intended for slow tripod work - much harder to focus and shoot handheld like you can with a 7.

If that sort of thing interests you, you might want to consider a 4x5 field camera with a 6x12 back; though that's even more-extreme on the slow/considered spectrum of shooting style, it gives you more movements (perspective and focal-plane control).

Chris Giles · Dec 12, 2012

I think I was at a bit on an impasse. I've all this great Hassy glass. So I've utilized that for running and gunning.
Love shooting landscapes though so the huge negative size is pulling me in.

It still requires much thought.

StoneNYC · Dec 12, 2012

Chris Giles said:
Ok so here's where I've got with this.

I went through the motions with a Mamiya 7ii but kept being beaten on price via ebay by sniping software, in the end this appears to be a good thing. I've now got my sights of a Technorama 6x12.
I went to an exhibition in London and saw Luc Delahaye's '132nd' which appears shot in 6x12 medium format. The damn print is 18ft wide. That's where I want to be.

So whilst I'm waiting for one to drop into my lap I've purchased a H1 body and a couple of extra film backs.

Those Technorama's look elegant, wondered about the Horseman 612 but it doesn't appeal for some reason.

There's no sniping "software" it's just people who sit on and wait till the last second

I got my 7II for $800 which is a good price for it. What's your price point?

Ken Nadvornick · Dec 12, 2012

StoneNYC said:
There's no sniping "software" it's just people who sit on and wait till the last second

In all my years of bidding I've only ever lost one auction.

StoneNYC said:
What's your price point?

In a time-delimited format like eBay, that is THE single most important question to answer... in advance.

Ken

MattKing · Dec 12, 2012

StoneNYC said:
There's no sniping "software" it's just people who sit on and wait till the last second

I use sniping software for every auction I'm interested in.

Set the price you are willing to pay and tell it to place your bid 5 seconds or so before the end of the auction.

Then ignore the auction until you get your emails at the end.

StoneNYC · Dec 12, 2012

MattKing said:
I use sniping software for every auction I'm interested in.

Set the price you are willing to pay and tell it to place your bid 5 seconds or so before the end of the auction.

Then ignore the auction until you get your emails at the end.

I just use the eBay app on my phone to tell me 1 minute before it ends, I open the app, wait till there's 7 seconds left and bid hehe (just in case it's bad signal sometimes 5 seconds is too short hehe)

really there's software? was it free? hmmm... hehe

MattKing · Dec 13, 2012

StoneNYC said:
I just use the eBay app on my phone to tell me 1 minute before it ends, I open the app, wait till there's 7 seconds left and bid hehe (just in case it's bad signal sometimes 5 seconds is too short hehe)

really there's software? was it free? hmmm... hehe

Lots of competing tools. The one I use uses their computer to place my bids, and I pay a fee for each successful bid (the fee is on a sliding scale).

Google "esnipe" to see what I am talking about.

StoneNYC · Dec 13, 2012

MattKing said:
Lots of competing tools. The one I use uses their computer to place my bids, and I pay a fee for each successful bid (the fee is on a sliding scale).

Google "esnipe" to see what I am talking about.

See I find that whole thing contrary to the idea of bidding, at least if I'm the one bidding, it's sorta fair haha

~Stone

The Noteworthy Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Chris Giles · Dec 13, 2012

I got my 7II for $800 which is a good price for it. What's your price point?[/QUOTE]

I was aiming for $1500 for a 7ii with 80mm

Here in the UK that's £950.
I've regularly seen them go for £1200 though ($1800)

Hence the Hassy body I just grabbed. The Horseman looks great but big compared to the Technorama.

StoneNYC · Dec 13, 2012

Chris Giles said:
I got my 7II for $800 which is a good price for it. What's your price point?

I was aiming for $1500 for a 7ii with 80mm

Here in the UK that's £950.
I've regularly seen them go for £1200 though ($1800)

Hence the Hassy body I just grabbed. The Horseman looks great but big compared to the Technorama.[/QUOTE]

$1,500's about right for the body and lens, though I would shoot for $1,300 personally if I wanted the 80mm... I never liked buying the "kit" lens, and the 80mm just wasn't a focal legnth I figured I would use as much, I was right, I mostly use my 65m

Good luck though and when you do get it, enjoy, it's an amazing camera!

arpinum · Dec 13, 2012

Two things:
1. Ebay runs a second-price auction. This means if you bid $2000 and the second highest bidder is only $1000, you pay $1005. Best is to bid your highest willingness to pay early on, and see if you get an email in a few days saying you won. No need to monitor and keep rebidding.

2. The technorama does have a shift attachment for certain models. I think its 8mm, and can be flipped in both directions.

Sirius Glass · Dec 13, 2012

StoneNYC said:
There's no sniping "software" it's just people who sit on and wait till the last second

I rarely bit on eBay, but when I do I use sniping software. Since I started using the software is when someone out bid my highest bit and that very, very rarely.

The software is free and there is no charge using the software nor for winning.

ambaker · Dec 13, 2012

I've used auction stealer (website) from time to time. You get 3, if I remember correctly, for free each week. If you are a paying member, you can set up auction groups, where if you win one, it does not enter bids on the rest.

Works great, but I really do not use it often these days. Not from any dissatisfaction, I just don't buy as much auction stuff as I used to.

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MattKing · Dec 13, 2012

The primary advantage of the sniping software or websites is that it allows you to ignore the closing time and date of auctions. So if something is scheduled to end at 3:00 pm on a Thursday afternoon (my time - not east coast time) I don't have to be at the computer then.

And eBay doesn't really use a traditional auction structure, so using an non-traditional tool to deal with it is fine with me.

I would agree, however, that there are a lot less auctions that interest me now, even if at least some of that is due to the fact that I already have won auctions for things in the past.

shutterlight · Dec 31, 2012

I'm sure I'm late to the original point of the thread, but I'm a big Mamiya 7 fan and user of one. My "real" work this past semester was almost entirely shot with my 7. I started out with the 65, but I shifted to the 80 in August. I haven't looked back since, and the 65 is eventually going to be sold. They're both great lenses, particularly the 80 (which is outrageously sharp).

I got lucky with the original purchase price of my 7, which was $550. The guy I bought it from threw in a lot of film with it, which ended up being an added value of something like $200 (because it was mostly 220 film). The 65 came from KEH, as did the 80. I got the latter for $600 in BGN condition, which I thought was great, until a few days later when a LN- went on sale for $615. Oh well-- my 80 looked new to me and has worked flawlessly.

StoneNYC · Dec 31, 2012

shutterlight said:
I'm sure I'm late to the original point of the thread, but I'm a big Mamiya 7 fan and user of one. My "real" work this past semester was almost entirely shot with my 7. I started out with the 65, but I shifted to the 80 in August. I haven't looked back since, and the 65 is eventually going to be sold. They're both great lenses, particularly the 80 (which is outrageously sharp).

I got lucky with the original purchase price of my 7, which was $550. The guy I bought it from threw in a lot of film with it, which ended up being an added value of something like $200 (because it was mostly 220 film). The 65 came from KEH, as did the 80. I got the latter for $600 in BGN condition, which I thought was great, until a few days later when a LN- went on sale for $615. Oh well-- my 80 looked new to me and has worked flawlessly.

I keep going back and forth on saying ill never get an 80 and then wanting it. I have a 150, 65, and 43... I thought I would use the 43 more but I haven't made it out west and I'm always guessing as I don't have a viewfinder

The 150 I use but not often and 65 is my walking around lens. I suppose if I had an 80 I might use it, but I just feel like it doesn't give me enough area to play with. I started on a 50mm as a kid but I can't do a lot of nice close focus shots so the 80 just doesn't feel like a lens I would use for an RF.

Anyway glad you enjoy it.

Wonder if the OP ended up decoding...

~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

shutterlight · Dec 31, 2012

I bought the 150 from KEH, but immediately changed my mind. I only bought it because the price went below $400. I'm sort of glad it made it to me, just so that I could handle it. The 7 bodies are so light and relatively cheap in terms of construction materials, but the lenses are just the opposite. They're beautiful, and none more so than the 150. I returned the copy, but I came away knowing that I don't think I would want one (unless it was free or almost so).

The closest you can get to to a 50 (on 35mm) on the 7 is the 80, and it's more like a 40. I actually think it's the closest to being "just right," at least for me. I photograph almost nothing but people with my 7, mainly portraits, and the 80 works great for me for that purpose. When I had the 65 and was using it regularly, I also didn't think the 80 would have enough space for me, but it does, particularly now. Also, the lighter weight is a plus. It balances well with the body and that's part of why I prefer working with the 7 more than anything else.

I'm looking for a 6x7 rangefinder, need help choosing.

EdSawyer

revdocjim

StoneNYC

jcjohnnyrob4316

osprey48

EdSawyer

StoneNYC

Chris Giles

polyglot

Chris Giles

StoneNYC

Ken Nadvornick

MattKing

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StoneNYC

MattKing

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StoneNYC

Chris Giles

StoneNYC

arpinum

Sirius Glass

ambaker

MattKing

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shutterlight

StoneNYC

shutterlight

I'm looking for a 6x7 rangefinder, need help choosing.

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