I'm Going Back To Pre-Wet Before Developer

DF · Oct 19, 2020

Like it reads.
I don't recall any streaking, dots, mysterious marks, etc, on my neg.'s back in the days when I pre-wet. What's the harm?
I read that water makes gelatin more permeable to developer, but reguardless, if it takes the "dryness" away, wouldn't that make for better development - better negatives?

Donald Qualls · Oct 19, 2020

If you get better results that way, do it.

And that's likely the last non-conflicted statement you'll get on this question. You've touched a religious point.

R.Gould · Oct 19, 2020

Your film, your developing, do it in whatever way suits you,we all have our own way of doing thing, as long as it works for you then great, and I ain't posting any more on this subject, and to quote Donald above this the second last non-conflicted answer you are likely to get

MattKing · Oct 19, 2020

Moderators - lock this thread now!
(I too am in the pre-wet if it works for you camp).

pentaxuser · Oct 19, 2020

DF said:
Like it reads.
I don't recall any streaking, dots, mysterious marks, etc, on my neg.'s back in the days when I pre-wet. What's the harm?

There isn't any harm at all. Is it necessary is another question which if asked will, as Donald says, give you the views of the pre-wetters and non pre-wetters. Ilford does not recommend it but by this it means it isn't wrong, harmful or any other adjectives that spell the word "danger". It simply means that it is not required in its opinion - nothing more, nothing less

Is there a difference between the two schools of thought amongst the users who belong to these schools? Well generally and this follows on from what I have said above is that the pre-wetters see problems or potential problems with no pre-wetting but the non pre-wetters do not. In b&w terms the pre-wetters are not the exact positive or reversal of the non pre-wetters

Either way is OK and you can be at peace. I assert categorically that neither way makes you a good or a bad person

pentaxuser

StepheKoontz · Oct 19, 2020

I pre-wet films for about 5 minutes because I always have. Other folks can do whatever they want, just like I can.

Paul Howell · Oct 19, 2020

Over the years there has much discussion, when using a divided developer like Diafine do not use prewash, the water soaks into the emulsion and does not the emmusion to completely asbort part A developer. My thinking is new thin emulsions like Tmax, would not pre wash same reason. Older emulsions, maybe. I know that Kodak and Ilford advise against a prewash. If in the past you got better results with a prewash, why not.

ic-racer · Oct 19, 2020

DF said:
Like it reads.
I don't recall any streaking, dots, mysterious marks, etc, on my neg.'s back in the days when I pre-wet. What's the harm?
I read that water makes gelatin more permeable to developer, but reguardless, if it takes the "dryness" away, wouldn't that make for better development - better negatives?

Why did you stop the pre-wet?

Lachlan Young · Oct 19, 2020

DF said:
Like it reads.
I don't recall any streaking, dots, mysterious marks, etc, on my neg.'s back in the days when I pre-wet. What's the harm?
I read that water makes gelatin more permeable to developer, but reguardless, if it takes the "dryness" away, wouldn't that make for better development - better negatives?

It's not the presence or absence of a pre-wash that's causing or solving these problems. It's much more likely to do with the final rinse and film drying habits (the RH/ heat level of the environment used to dry the films is much more important than you think). Without pictures, it's impossible to tell however. The other possibility is bad agitation habits/ insufficient developer for the tanks - but those are very obvious faults.

Pentode · Oct 19, 2020

I have a hard and fast rule regarding pre-soaking film: Follow the directions.

If the manufacturer's data for a specific film suggests pre-soaking I presoak. If they don't I don't. I'm not dogmatic about it at all. I figure if the company that makes the stuff is telling me to soak it first then it probably won't hurt and if they're telling me not to then I probably shouldn't. That's as much thought as I'm willing to put into it. There are too many thoughts up there already and my brain is only so big....

Andrew O'Neill · Oct 19, 2020

I'm not a pre-wetter.

Paul Howell · Oct 19, 2020

Older emulsions like Foma are thicker, but as I think about it, no difference, the emulsion absorbs water not developer, the developer has to replace the developer, so more water in an older emulsion same as any other emulsion, takes time to replace the water with developer. Does it matter?

PFGS · Oct 19, 2020

MattKing said:
Moderators - lock this thread now!
(I too am in the pre-wet if it works for you camp).

I don't know - when I first came here, I found the utterly inconclusive 10,000-post-long stop-bath thread oddly comforting, in a "do what thou wilt" sort of way.

DF · Oct 19, 2020

I stopped when I went to a different darkroom - where they did/do things slightly different than my former dkrm.

Alan9940 · Oct 19, 2020

I've pre-wet all films for 40 years without issue. Don't see any need to change.

Vaughn · Oct 19, 2020

Use a water bath before development, easy to do, and then see if that corrects the problem. If not, start looking at other factors in your new darkroom situation. Best to approach one variable at a time, anyway.

Donald Qualls · Oct 19, 2020

Paul Howell said:
Older emulsions like Foma are thicker, but as I think about it, no difference, the emulsion absorbs water not developer, the developer has to replace the developer, so more water in an older emulsion same as any other emulsion, takes time to replace the water with developer. Does it matter?

As it happens, I've done Fomapan 400 (under the Arista .EDU Ultra label) both ways recently -- like in the last few weeks. I had intended to prewash my Fomapan (120 and large format) to avoid turning my developer blue (nothing wrong with blue developer, but one color already present makes it harder to watch for changes in the solution color that might herald an incipient breakdown of a replenishment regimen), but forgot for one tank full (the blue is fading as replenishment dilutes the dye).

I could not now go back and separate pre-wet and non-pre-wet negatives by their final condition. Even with the relatively thick emulsion on Fomapan (it's really not that thick, it's more 1970s tech than 1940s), it seems to make no difference with replenished Xtol.

Paul Howell · Oct 19, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
As it happens, I've done Fomapan 400 (under the Arista .EDU Ultra label) both ways recently -- like in the last few weeks. I had intended to prewash my Fomapan (120 and large format) to avoid turning my developer blue (nothing wrong with blue developer, but one color already present makes it harder to watch for changes in the solution color that might herald an incipient breakdown of a replenishment regimen), but forgot for one tank full (the blue is fading as replenishment dilutes the dye).

I could not now go back and separate pre-wet and non-pre-wet negatives by their final condition. Even with the relatively thick emulsion on Fomapan (it's really not that thick, it's more 1970s tech than 1940s), it seems to make no difference with replenished Xtol.

Unless your using replenished developer why bother?

Donald Qualls · Oct 19, 2020

Paul Howell said:
Unless your using replenished developer why bother?

If it makes you feel good or, for some reason, you think/feel your negatives are better with a pre-wet, then go ahead. The only place I consider it important is in C-41, where a pre-wet with the 102F tempering water brings tank and film up to working temperature before adding the developer.

Lachlan Young · Oct 19, 2020

DF said:
I stopped when I went to a different darkroom - where they did/do things slightly different than my former dkrm.

Is the film drying procedure different? How warm/ dry is the environment around the drying cabinet?

Patrick Robert James · Oct 19, 2020

I prewet for rotary processing in the JOBO for 4x5 and sometimes with staining developers for medium format. I usually use PMK for the larger formats. For regular developers and 120/35mm I don't.

In other words, Whatevs....

PhotoJim · Oct 19, 2020

I don't pre-wet - unless I have streaking during processing. And the only time I've ever had streaking was doing RA-4 prints. I adopted a prewash there, and it solved my problem.

I've not had the issue with film, so I've not adopted the practice there.

Sirius Glass · Oct 19, 2020

I learned from PE that prewetting the film avoids many problems. He was our resident expert and knew more about film and film development that all of use combined. The self appointed experts without scientific experience will claim that the problems are all in film drying, but what do they know? Absolutely nothing, nada, zilch, ayn v'effis.

BradS · Oct 19, 2020

I’m going to go back to black cherry ice cream. I’ve been getting rocky road the past few times and it just isn’t doing it for me the way that black cherry did.

BAC1967 · Oct 20, 2020

BradS said:
I’m going to go back to black cherry ice cream. I’ve been getting rocky road the past few times and it just isn’t doing it for me the way that black cherry did.

I switch from Rocky Road to Chocolate Chip Cookie dough and haven’t looked back.

I'm Going Back To Pre-Wet Before Developer

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