I'm getting tired............

Photo Engineer · Jul 5, 2007

Well, this says it all.

This post will probably get me in trouble.

I'm getting tired of seeing people claim to have made emulsions and coated them but seeing no examples whatsoever. One person claims to be making ISO 400 emulsions regularly and making coatings.

I see little evidence that anyone is doing anything but Denise Ross (Good work Denise - you deserve KUDOS for your work as do all of the others who have posted their work - you are all excluded from this, even those using off-the-shelf emulsions such as Liquid Light).

Anyhow, I am about half way into my textbook and am about to start on the script for the DVD to go with it. I figure about 150 pages of text and 2 - 8 hours of video showing emulsion making and coating. My biggest problem is getting an OK to publish some of this.

In any event, there are lots of outsiders claiming to do this type of work, but I have yet to see anything from anyone but Jim Browning. I don't want to copy their work. I want to know that there are others doing this work for real and are not just smoke and mirrors out there in LaLa Land. And, I want to give credit where credit is due.

Sorry for the rant, but reviewing what some people (well two or three persons mostly) have said has caused me to post this. If you search the internet you will find some rather nasty posts over the last two to three years about my efforts.

People here on APUG are discussing what you wish to leave behind as your legacy. This is my effort to leave something behind, my legacy if you will. It is not a set of pictures suitable for a gallery, but rather a set of emulsions for paper and film coatings and coating methods to help you make those pictures.

Peace.

PE

Terence · Jul 5, 2007

PE, I for one have truly appreciated your efforts, even if I don't currently have the room to give it a try. Before you showed up here, I had not even thought it possible to do such things at home. It's certainly opened my mind, even if it hasn't yielded any fruits from this tree.

Photo Engineer · Jul 5, 2007

Some have apparently planted barren trees, or none at all, but claim to have an orchard.

PE

Terence · Jul 5, 2007

I only use that approach with the women . . .

Alex Hawley · Jul 5, 2007

I hear ya Ron. Once again, it sounds like the foibles of human nature showing through. Someone thinks they are going to do this thing and brags it up all over the 'net. Then they find out that it really is some hard work to be successful, or they just lack that smidgeon of scientific discipline to work methodically and carefully. After many failed attempts, they need to blame the failure on someone else so they don't lose face. Happens all the time.

I hope your work gets published. If it does, I for sure will buy it. Legacies may be small, but they are treasured by those who appreciate them.

MurrayMinchin · Jul 5, 2007

Don't let the loud-mouthed-schnooks get you down!

Murray

copake_ham · Jul 5, 2007

Please let us know when your book/DVD is available. Good luck with your efforts!

DBP · Jul 5, 2007

Wow, I didn't know you were working on a book. Put me down for a copy, although I doubt I will try to make my own film any time soon. Lab work is not one of my strengths. But if there is someone else of equal knowledge out there they have not been as visible or as open to helping others.

Photo Engineer · Jul 5, 2007

My plan right now is to have a textbook of about 150 pages and a DVD of about 2 - 6 hours long with it showing how to do things. I'm in the midst of writers block having found I did things wrong somehow. So, I have to cut and past and in the mean time, I was APUGing. Some of the posts by others bothered me. As you see.

PE

David A. Goldfarb · Jul 5, 2007

I'm very much looking forward to the book. Hang in there!

mikebarger · Jul 5, 2007

Fred Picker said it's easy to identify good photographers, they show you their work. They don't tell you about it. Not a quote but close.

I suspect making emulsions and coating them falls in about the same scope of things.

You may not have liked Fred, but I think more times than not he hit the nail on the head.

Keep up the good work Ron.

Mike

CRhymer · Jul 5, 2007

Yes, hang in there. I hope to have some product to scan and post within a month. Thank you for the great workshop. The group of emulsion makers will grow slowly, but steadily. There is still a lot of film and paper around. This will not always be the case.

Cheers,
Clarence

dmr · Jul 5, 2007

Terence said:
PE, I for one have truly appreciated your efforts, even if I don't currently have the room to give it a try.

Agree 100%! When you do publish, be sure to post it here.

And don't let the jerks get to you! Take the high road and stay on it! Leave them back in the dust!

highpeak · Jul 6, 2007

PE, I will be inline for the book. Good luck!

Alex W.

johnnywalker · Jul 6, 2007

Even though I have no plans to coat my own film (in the near future at least), I read your posts on the subject with interest. I'm glad to see someone keeping this art/science alive and admire you for persevering. At the very least I'm sure your book/video will be the starting point for others to follow. Keep up the good work.

ben-s · Jul 6, 2007

PE,
I really appreciate what you're doing, and respect your sticking at it.
I have looked at some of the old threads here, and I was quite astounded at the hostility and unprofessionalism shown by certain protagonists who seem to disregard your work as meaningless.

The book/DVD combination will, I think, prove very useful to people who, like me, are unable to attend a workshop in another country.
Is there any chance of getting the DVD in PAL format for us UK folks?

Tom Kershaw · Jul 6, 2007

Is there any chance of getting the DVD in PAL format for us UK folks?

Ben,

Surely that depends on the origination format. i.e. if the video is originally high-def, that can be converted to NTSC or PAL without disproportionate loss. However, if the origination is standard def, the process of conversion from NTSC to PAL may negate any potential quality advantages. Most current DVD players / TVs (in the UK) will display an NTSC signal.

Another suggestion if the video origination is high-def might be to provide an HD version to the end user...

hope this helps,

Tom.

John Bartley · Jul 6, 2007

Ron,

I, probably along with many others, am quietly reading your posts and following your work and viewing the examples you have posted. Please keep it up and put me down as another buyer once you're satisfied that your book/DVD is up to standard.

cheers eh?

gr82bart · Jul 6, 2007

Ron,

"Empty drum makes loudest noise" is old Confucius saying. Your drum is very full. Keep on doing what you are doing as you are already leaving a very positive legacy.

Regards, Art.

z-man · Jul 6, 2007

LET THOSE WHO DO TELL THOSE WHO DON'T

Photo Engineer said:
Well, this says it all.

This post will probably get me in trouble.

I'm getting tired of seeing people claim to have made emulsions and coated them but seeing no examples whatsoever. One person claims to be making ISO 400 emulsions regularly and making coatings.

I see little evidence that anyone is doing anything but Denise Ross (Good work Denise - you deserve KUDOS for your work as do all of the others who have posted their work - you are all excluded from this, even those using off-the-shelf emulsions such as Liquid Light).

Anyhow, I am about half way into my textbook and am about to start on the script for the DVD to go with it. I figure about 150 pages of text and 2 - 8 hours of video showing emulsion making and coating. My biggest problem is getting an OK to publish some of this.

In any event, there are lots of outsiders claiming to do this type of work, but I have yet to see anything from anyone but Jim Browning. I don't want to copy their work. I want to know that there are others doing this work for real and are not just smoke and mirrors out there in LaLa Land. And, I want to give credit where credit is due.

Sorry for the rant, but reviewing what some people (well two or three persons mostly) have said has caused me to post this. If you search the internet you will find some rather nasty posts over the last two to three years about my efforts.

People here on APUG are discussing what you wish to leave behind as your legacy. This is my effort to leave something behind, my legacy if you will. It is not a set of pictures suitable for a gallery, but rather a set of emulsions for paper and film coatings and coating methods to help you make those pictures.

Peace.

PE

asalumu alekum(i come in peace)

pe -you have not only educated and inspired; but also stimulated those few who do, to tell those many who don't, what is, the real deal -

i know htat i express the profound admiration of all who read your posts, and marvel at your prodigious output and brotherly sharing of what is the hard won fruit of your long and arduous labor of love in the orchard of photography-right on my brother

as the imam of masjid al mush-hag habeen(the church of the troublemakers-yes it really exists) i am sure that the creator and all of creation smile on your 'troublemaking', i know i do

my own 40 yrs experience in htis field is as that of the chef and cook-the look of joy and satisfaction on those who partake of our labor is often as important a reward as the money

in the words of one of my many clients a long time ago : YA DID GOOD!

peace out

vaya con dios

juan · Jul 6, 2007

ben-s said:
Is there any chance of getting the DVD in PAL format for us UK folks?

DVDs work a bit differently - they are based on regions of the world. A DVD can be made to play in all regions - in fact, AFIK, most small production run DVDs are produced to play in all regions. It only makes sense to regionalize DVDs for the big movie producers who can make different editions for different parts of the world.
juan

ben-s · Jul 6, 2007

Tom Kershaw said:
Ben,

Surely that depends on the origination format. i.e. if the video is originally high-def, that can be converted to NTSC or PAL without disproportionate loss. However, if the origination is standard def, the process of conversion from NTSC to PAL may negate any potential quality advantages. Most current DVD players / TVs (in the UK) will display an NTSC signal.

Another suggestion if the video origination is high-def might be to provide an HD version to the end user...

hope this helps,

Tom.

Yes and no.
It wasn't the quality I was on about, it was the whole standard.
Most editing systems will allow you to render out PAL or NTSC as you like, so I was wondering if this would be done as an option.
Assuming SD throughout, my modus operandi in this type of case would be to record PAL (higher res), edit and render out both formats.
I'd then create region free DVDs from those files.

eddym · Jul 6, 2007

Hang in there, Ron!

Ole · Jul 6, 2007

PE,

I'm looking forward to your book and DVD.

I understand very little of emulsion making, but my chemistry background at least allows me to realise how little I know - and I believe that even that little is far more than most others, including at least some of those who have claimed to make their own fast emulsions.

Put me down for one copy of each.

Photo Engineer · Jul 6, 2007

Thanks for all of the support. I'm still hard at work typing away on the kbd. I am lining up the graphs, charts and still photos that I'll need to insert into the book and seeing how to get rights to some of them. I cannot take photo micrographs for example, and so will have to use some from other sources.

I will probably be doing the DVD in HD format on a MAC and will probably use Final Cut for the editor. A friend is a capable videographer and editor. I have a script outline that will show emulsion making, finishing, dye sensitization, and then film, paper and plate coating. This will be about 6 parts. The outline of the book contains two parts with some repetition....

Part I is what is going on and why and Part II is the entire set of formulas. This section hopefully will contain a selection of those used by friends as well, used with their permission, and also a section of formulas dredged from memory that I used to work with at EK. They will probably be impossible to reproduce exactly on paper, and will certainly be impossible to do at home without automation, but there will be a chapter on that as well. (the repetition will be mainly due to the fact that I expect some people to skip Part I and go right to Part II, but this might not be the best, so I'll repeat some crucial points in the experimental part)

I hope to include a complete listing of patents as well. I made a recent posting here on APUG of patents which gives some idea of what I've been looking at.

PE

I'm getting tired............

Photo Engineer

Terence

Photo Engineer

Terence

Alex Hawley

MurrayMinchin

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copake_ham

DBP

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David A. Goldfarb

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mikebarger

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dmr

highpeak

johnnywalker

ben-s

Tom Kershaw

John Bartley

gr82bart

z-man

juan

ben-s

eddym

Ole

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Photo Engineer

I'm getting tired............

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