I'm feeling a bit ill. Does this happen with photochemicals

pentaxuser · Nov 20, 2022

koraks said:
Perhaps it's just the sensory deprivation that makes one more aware of processes within the body that otherwise go unnoticed among the bustle of regular life?

Possibly but he has been deprived on other occasions when he was using Ilfosol and his symptoms were much less or we talking now not about the OP's issue but about the causes and symptoms of sensory deprivation in general?

I am deprived of light for the time it take me to load the film on the reel and shut the tank lid and I see no reason why the OP's deprivation is likely to be any longer than mine, say, 5 mins max . Is 5 mins in the total darkness going to lead to the symptoms he has mentioned? I hope not, otherwise he may as well give up film processing

pentaxuser

Alex Benjamin · Nov 20, 2022

How are you feeling, Matthew?

VinceInMT · Nov 20, 2022

OP, you have a nice range of possibilities posted here that should provide some direction for you to pursue. While we are all similar in biological terms, we have individual sensitivities that come into play. I’ve not had negative feedback in my use of chemicals except once. This was with the old (maybe original) Cibachrome process that I used in a drum. The instructions said to go directly from the developer to the blix. I had little ventilation in that darkroom and ended up with a scratchy throat from whatever fumes resulted in that combination. Adding both ventilation to the darkroom and a wash between those steps solved that problem for me.

Phil50 · Nov 20, 2022

I used to design and manufacture fume extraction systems eg. for laboratories and clean rooms etc. What tended to be overlooked, particularly by clients, is the simple fact that you “can’t take it out if you don’t put it in” i.e make up air. In larger industrial applications this would involve an air conditioning system providing fan driven tempered and filtered air. This probably would not be practical for a small darkroom, but darkrooms are light tight by necessity hence fairly airt tight too. In the worst cases the fan pulls rising negative pressure until an aerodynamic stall occurs, the pressure drops and then rises again in a continuous cycle. Simple solution would be to install a light tight air input grill, usually in the door at low level. If this door is internal the temperature gradient may not be too severe, if external the incoming air ,with a climate like the north of England, may be a little cool in winter.

pentaxuser · Nov 20, 2022

Alex Benjamin said:
How are you feeling, Matthew?

Yes it would help if Matthew were to respond. Frankly we need to know more. On the surface he is developing a film for what may be a short period in a bathroom that is about eight feet by about five feet. He needs it to be shut i.e. without an air flow or light for maybe 5 mins while he loads the film onto the reel until he tells us otherwise.

pentaxuser

Agulliver · Nov 20, 2022

guangong said:
We were taught how to pour and handle hazardous chemicals in high school chemistry class. We luckily caught the tail end of teachers who entered teaching profession when high school was the equivalent of most college education today. In fact, our chemistry and physics teachers moonlighted at a local university. I am sure the mannies prohibit such classes today.
My darkroom is my whole basement. I don’t believe in air tight houses.

I cannot speak for other countries but in the UK we certainly still do teach children to safely handle chemicals, and if they study chemistry even up to age 16 they'll handle stuff far more dangerous than what's in photo chemicals that are available to the public. For those who continue to 18, we can offer them some seriously toxic and hazardous stuff. Being responsible for 15 school laboratories is how I can make my own dichromate reversal bleach. And frankly making that up is not one of the more hazardous activities I do.

There's nothing in those chemicals OP used which would ordinarily cause the symptoms they mentioned unless they are specifically allergic to something in the kits. In which case they'd have probably experienced issues before.

General advice to be well ventilated, especially in confined spaces, is perfectly good. And at least one poster here doesn't understand principles of ventilation. Cold, covid, RSV and other bugs doing the rounds could also be the culprit. I am not trying to diagnose from my armchair but covid has varying different symptoms from person to person, even among a group who catch the illness at the same time and place. So don't rule it out.

I hope OP is feeling better and responds here soon.

Agulliver · Nov 20, 2022

pentaxuser said:
Yes it would help if Matthew were to respond. Frankly we need to know more. On the surface he is developing a film for what may be a short period in a bathroom that is about eight feet by about five feet. He needs it to be shut i.e. without an air flow or light for maybe 5 mins while he loads the film onto the reel until he tells us otherwise.

pentaxuser

I sometimes develop film in my bathroom, which seems to be the same size, if my kitchen is unavailable. But, I load the film in another room in a changing bag so everything thereafter can be done in daylight. Which means some ventilation, usually door open into the hallway and a window open to the outside world. The worst incident I've ever had is spilling dichromate bleach into the bathtub.

Now I have two kittens I am more careful, as one likes to lick the cap of my fixer bottle. I am sure sodium thiosulphate is not good for kitties.

If OP is loading the film in his bathroom in the dark, there ought to be no chemicals open or in use at that time. I'm still curious as to whether this has happened to him before, even to a lesser extent as allergies can grow over time.

ic-racer · Nov 20, 2022

matthewb&w said:
Im feeling a bit ill after a session of developing. Sore throat, headache, dizzy etc: Its not like coid and flu.

I used bellini eco developer
Ilford Isostop and
Bellini eco fixer
Thought they'd be better as they don't have such harmful chemicals.

I didn't get this so much with ilford ilfosol3

Does this happen often?

...hmm lets see...any worldwide pandemics causing those symptoms...

Ian Grant · Nov 20, 2022

Standing around in an enclosed space with limited movement is not very good for you. You only have to see how fit soldiers collapsed guarding the late Queen's coffin because of lack of movement.

Add to an enclosed space a lack of ventilation, you are depleting the oxygen levels, and even without some relatively innocuous chemical fumes, it's not a good combination.

When I print it tends to be in long sessions, many hours, but I take short breaks, grab a cup of tea, maybe cook and eat, get some fresh air.

Ian

pentaxuser · Nov 20, 2022

Agulliver said:
If OP is loading the film in his bathroom in the dark, there ought to be no chemicals open or in use at that time. I'm still curious as to whether this has happened to him before, even to a lesser extent as allergies can grow over time.

Yes I agree that where possible there should be no chemicals open even in a darkroom that is slightly larger but all I can say is that my darkroom is about 8 x10ft, so slightly larger, and I regularly pour out my developer and fixer into their cylinders( about 2 inches across) then load the reel. So the developer is contained in the tank within about 5 Mins max but my fixer sits there for the development time of maybe 12 mins before it is used. The darkroom during that period is light tight and air tight and I have yet to feel the way the OP describes

However we have no idea exactly what his procedure is and that why we need to know more. I have asked a few questions of him in my earlier post and I and the rest of us await a response

pentaxuser

MattKing · Nov 20, 2022

I'm confused.
Are people developing film in a closed darkroom when the film is in a light tight developing tank?
Why not open the door once the film is in the tank?

koraks · Nov 20, 2022

pentaxuser said:
Possibly but he has been

Ah, my post was addressed very specifically at the situation @eli griggs described, not necessarily OP's situation. Sorry for not being clear enough on that. Although it can still apply, of course; mind you, I meant the situation where you already picked up a germ somewhere, it starts to incubate and create symptoms, and if you happen to be more attuned to these symptoms you might be earlier and more acutely aware of a developing cold or whathaveyou than otherwise. Hope this clears it up.

And yes, I think something like a common cold is still a plausible cause in OP's case, without evidently being sure, qualified of performing a diagnosis etc. But you know, common sense and all that old-fashioned stuff.

Alex Benjamin · Nov 20, 2022

MattKing said:
I'm confused.
Are people developing film in a closed darkroom when the film is in a light tight developing tank?
Why not open the door once the film is in the tank?

This

The OP is developing film. That means the amount of time the diluted chemicals are in open air, i.e., not in the developing tank, is almost nil in case of the developer, and just a few minutes in case of stop and fix. Even in a small bathroom with little ventilation, normally, not enough time and concentration to cause the major symptoms OP is talking about, unless, as Matt mentioned, Matthew was developing a lot of films without ever opening the door.

I really think people should refrain from making any assumptions until further information is given by OP.

@matthewb&w : are you OK?

pentaxuser · Nov 20, 2022

Alex, yes some time ago I thought I had mentioned what you quote from Matt but maybe my U.K. accent doesn't come across as well as a fellow Canadian

pentaxuser

Andrew O'Neill · Nov 20, 2022

You have the flu bug that is going around. I'll bet if you used Xtol, or DDX instead, you'd still feel crappy. Rest up. Get well.

eli griggs · Nov 20, 2022

koraks said:
Perhaps it's just the sensory deprivation that makes one more aware of processes within the body that otherwise go unnoticed among the bustle of regular life?

I think that may be one factor in part of the collation of and sensitives of someone begining to feel "a bit off".

eli griggs · Nov 20, 2022

Never sweep or vacuum a darkroom, but us damp mops, like a Swifter and a fine pressure spray bottle like the inexpensive 1/2 gallon, hand held, Harbor Freight sprayer, mist the working surfaces of your enlarger bench and wiping sink and trays, tanks and reels of dried chemistry.

Stirring up chemistry from last week, month or years is a sure fire way to inhale, eat or frink nasty materials, in my experience.

Sirius Glass · Nov 20, 2022

Andrew O'Neill said:
You have the flu bug that is going around. I'll bet if you used Xtol, or DDX instead, you'd still feel crappy. Rest up. Get well.

Neither XTOL, replenished XTOL or DDX should cause flu like symptoms.

Alex Benjamin · Nov 20, 2022

pentaxuser said:
Alex, yes some time ago I thought I had mentioned what you quote from Matt but maybe my U.K. accent doesn't come across as well as a fellow Canadian

pentaxuser

Blimey! Means I watched all 'em Monty Pythons and Faulty Towers for nothing! Should have stuck with Coronation Street a bit longer...

rcphoto · Nov 20, 2022

ALWAYS go to the internet for medical advice.

Sirius Glass · Nov 20, 2022

rcphoto said:
ALWAYS go to the internet for medical advice.

Great advice

Welcome to ~~APUG~~ Photrio!!

Rich Ullsmith · Nov 20, 2022

Oh, boy. Whatever you do, don't open up any of that stuff under the kitchen sink. NaOCL, NH4, all manners of caustic powders. Never mind the darkroom. How about some oven cleaner? a spray that melts tar. Yeah, stay out of that darkroom. Bad stuff in there.

abruzzi · Nov 21, 2022

David Lindquist said:
And there's the principle beloved of biostatisticians, epidemiologists and the like: "Association is not causation."

As in your food poisoning may not be due to the last meal you had but to one you had the day before.

David

250swb · Nov 21, 2022

Extractor fans are primarily for changing the air in a darkroom and removing smells is only a bonus. In the UK we have a sharp rise in cases of colds and flu because nobody's been exposed to the viruses for a long time due to Covid restrictions, so don't rule that out, and don't rule out Covid itself. It could also be psychosomatic or if it's been a long processing session not drinking enough (water).

Agulliver · Nov 21, 2022

OP hasn't been on Photrio until about an hour after he joined. Hopefully he's feeling better and has got all the info he needs. It would be nice if he'd come back and let us know he's OK.

I'm feeling a bit ill. Does this happen with photochemicals

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I'm feeling a bit ill. Does this happen with photochemicals

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