I'm feeling a bit ill. Does this happen with photochemicals

matthewb&w · Nov 19, 2022

Im feeling a bit ill after a session of developing. Sore throat, headache, dizzy etc: Its not like coid and flu.

I used bellini eco developer
Ilford Isostop and
Bellini eco fixer
Thought they'd be better as they don't have such harmful chemicals.

I didn't get this so much with ilford ilfosol3

Does this happen often?

GregY · Nov 19, 2022

How big is your darkroom? & what is the ventilation like?

matthewb&w · Nov 19, 2022

GregY said:
How big is your darkroom? & what is the ventilation like?

I use a bathroom. Its about 2x1.5m

Don_ih · Nov 19, 2022

matthewb&w said:
Im feeling a bit ill after a session of developing. Sore throat, headache, dizzy etc: Its not like coid and flu.

I used bellini eco developer
Ilford Isostop and
Bellini eco fixer
Thought they'd be better as they don't have such harmful chemicals.

I didn't get this so much with ilford ilfosol3

Does this happen often?

It's quite unlikely that anything in any of those would cause a sore throat, etc. Since you're not mixing from powders, there is virtually nothing that would be in the air from those chemicals. Metol is a known irritant - but it seems there's none in your dev.

gone · Nov 19, 2022

matthewb&w said:
I use a bathroom. Its about 2x1.5m

There you go. You should have good ventilation in a space that small w/ almost all the darkroom chemicals. The issue probably isn't them, it's the small working area that you're in. There should be adequate safety material on the chemicals containers, or in the material safety data sheets, as we call them in the U.S. You should always read and understand them before using any sort chemical that's new to you.

Having said that, I've never gotten flu like symptoms from anything in my darkroom, so I'd ck to see that I didn't have a cold first.

MattKing · Nov 19, 2022

1) hope you are feeling better soon;
2) its flu and cold season!;
3) ventilation, ventilation, ventilation - even without chemicals.

matthewb&w · Nov 19, 2022

momus said:
There you go. You should have good ventilation in a space that small w/ almost all the darkroom chemicals. The issue isn't them, it's the small working area you're in.

Ok - should I make sure the extractor fan goes when I'm using it?

MattKing · Nov 19, 2022

matthewb&w said:
Ok - should I make sure the extractor fan goes when I'm using it?

Yes - regularly. And open the door when you can.
The same applies when you take a shower .

bernard_L · Nov 19, 2022

Same here. Allergic reaction in the sinuses, and headache. Extracting ventilator on High. Added a repurposed PC ventilator (12V) blowing horizontally across the fixer tray; before that, fixer fumes (Ilford rapid) used to accumulate above the tray. Next time will buy odorless fixer, but not sure it's only the smell that hurts.

Oldwino · Nov 19, 2022

Sounds like you might have Covid.

pentaxuser · Nov 19, 2022

matthewb&w said:
Im feeling a bit ill after a session of developing. Sore throat, headache, dizzy etc:

I didn't get this so much with ilford ilfosol3

Maybe it's time we looked at what may be a key statement, namely the bottom statement How much less were your symptoms with Ilford Ilfosol 3 and what were the stop bath and fixer used then. Were the symptoms a little less or a lot less to the point of non existence and in the case of Ilfosol were you subject to it in an open container for less time than the Bellini chems?

How long, once your pour the chemicals out into the cylinders do they sit in those open cylinders before being poured into the closed developer tank?

How long after your processing do the symptoms arise and for how long do they last?

Answers to those questions should help to establish if the Bellini developer and fixer are really the causes. I'd have thought that for the time spent in a bathroom of the size you quote with those open chemicals they are unlikely to be the cause

pentaxuser

pentaxuser · Nov 19, 2022

bernard_L said:
Same here. Allergic reaction in the sinuses, and headache. Extracting ventilator on High. Added a repurposed PC ventilator (12V) blowing horizontally across the fixer tray; before that, fixer fumes (Ilford rapid) used to accumulate above the tray. Next time will buy odorless fixer, but not sure it's only the smell that hurts.

Yes but the OP is only developing not operating with open trays and presumably his cylinders only contain the dev, stop and fix for a relatively short time before being poured into the tank

If its covid, Oldwino then he'll soon know but its quite a leap to suggest that. Reminds me of the song by Stanley Holloway below

pentaxuser

Rick A · Nov 19, 2022

It only happens to me when I guzzle selenium toner.

Vaughn · Nov 19, 2022

Ventilation does no good if the photo chemical-containing air has to pass your head to be vented out.

xkaes · Nov 19, 2022

Since this has never happened to you before when you've been in the same place doing the same thing, it's most likely something else. The season flu is hitting hard in the US. It might be in the UK as well. Then there are COVID and RSV. If it was the chemicals it will disappear quickly. If not and gets worse, get help. It could be lots of things, but unlikely the chemicals or poor ventilation.

Alex Benjamin · Nov 19, 2022

Rule No. 1: always use chemicals in a well-ventilated area.

Rule No. 2: You can assume that your symptoms are related to the darkroom chemistry—hence, best to stop when occurring—but you can't presume they are until the phenomena happened at least twice in the same condition (i.e., basic scientific proof), which shouldn't happen if you followed rule No. 1.

Rule No. 3: never, ever, ever—ever ever ever!—ask medical or health-related advice on a photography forum. Out of the many opinions—and that's all they are, opinions and assumptions (see rule No. 2)—you'll get, one may be the correct answer, but you have no way of knowing. And none could be remotely close to the correct answer: for all we know, it could be related to whatever you had for breakfast. (Cum hoc ergo propter hoc as we say after a whiff too many of Ammonium thiosulfate 60%.)

Note: I am well aware of the irony of giving you health-related advice on a photography forum despite Rule No. 3 .

All this said, hope you feel better and can go back to the darkroom soon.

Sirius Glass · Nov 19, 2022

You might want to check out a pulmonologist for your symptoms.

AgX · Nov 19, 2022

Basically the term "eco" can mean anything, as such it is not regulated in the EU, thoughn there is a EU eco-label. In our field a "eco"-bath might be a bath that does not need to bear the international eco-toxicity hazard label. That does not exclude though that it may be harmful to man, as one has to differ between man- and eco-toxicity in that labelling system.
That Bellini developer of yours though does not need to bear any of these labels, meaning to be under respective thrasholds.

pentaxuser · Nov 19, 2022

So it could be covid or flu or it might be advisable to see an expert in respiratory disease. He might be as well checking his life insurance as well

Seriously however, it came on after a developing session with a sore throat, headache and dizziness only. If the OP wasn't feeling too bad before he started this thread then I wonder how he feels now?

It might be worth waiting to see what he has anything to add to the actual circumstances of the development process

pentaxuser

BrianShaw · Nov 19, 2022

Alex Benjamin said:
Rule No. 3: never, ever, ever—ever ever ever!—ask medical or health-related advice on a photography forum.

Corollary: be very cautious with interpretation of any other online information too.

David Lindquist · Nov 19, 2022

And there's the principle beloved of biostatisticians, epidemiologists and the like: "Association is not causation."

As in your food poisoning may not be due to the last meal you had but to one you had the day before.

David

MattKing · Nov 19, 2022

Vaughn said:
Ventilation does no good if the photo chemical-containing air has to pass your head to be vented out.

Except that lack of ventilation could, by itself, be the cause. It may not be a problem with the chemicals at all!

eli griggs · Nov 20, 2022

There have been times in the past, when I was in much better shape and health and, during a darkroom session, I started to feel the oncoming of an illness, such as a flu, or similar bug.

I believe the dark, close confines of the darkroom acts as a sort of trigger when I or someone else are already carrying a pathogen, so get some rest, it may only be a 24 to 48 hours ailment, and longer than that, well you'll just have to deal with it.

Non medical advice, but I like to take zinc daily since COVID first struck me down and it does seem to make me less susceptible, in my own mind.

Good luck and do no swallow the glass thermometer .

koraks · Nov 20, 2022

eli griggs said:
I believe the dark, close confines of the darkroom acts as a sort of trigger

Perhaps it's just the sensory deprivation that makes one more aware of processes within the body that otherwise go unnoticed among the bustle of regular life?

guangong · Nov 20, 2022

We were taught how to pour and handle hazardous chemicals in high school chemistry class. We luckily caught the tail end of teachers who entered teaching profession when high school was the equivalent of most college education today. In fact, our chemistry and physics teachers moonlighted at a local university. I am sure the mannies prohibit such classes today.
My darkroom is my whole basement. I don’t believe in air tight houses.

I'm feeling a bit ill. Does this happen with photochemicals

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