I'm asking the general public here... what dslr has the best monochrome (b&w) profile?

multivoiced said:

Thanks for offering so much information about Nikon 1. I have really considered buying it used. There are numerous complaints about reliability. That's my main hesitation. Do you have any experience with "SOOC" JPEG shooting with a Nikon 1 camera?

Click to expand...

yeah, I always shoot Raw/JPEG. That allows me to use the color (or B&W) profile, but still have the raw if I want changes. The color profiles aren't really all that advanced. I suspect the B&W profile is really just a simple desaturate, unlike te Fuji Acros simulation.

The biggest reliability issue with the N1 is the lenses. Some of the lenses have an issue where the aperture get stuck due to a ribbon cable that wears out. There was soneone in Taiwan that that was repairing them--check on the Nikon 1 forum on the DPreview forum. I sent some of my lenses in to be repaired which he did.

I have a V1 and two AW1s. The last generations--V3 and J5--look to have nice improvements, but in the end it is a dead system, and unlike a lot of other mirrorless cameras, the N1 cameras are not very good at using adapted lenses or third party lenses. It can be done, but unlike the Sony or Olympus cameras from a similar era, the Nikon cameras don't do anything to make it work well.

Mostly I'll say they're worth it if they meet very specific needs--most of the current set of users are birders/wildlife photographers because with the 70-300 and the "crop factor" of 2.8, you get very long lenses ideal for getting close to wildlife.

There was some mention of MaxMax in this thread, so I wanted to share my experience with them. I've had a disastrously bad, very expensive, very stressful experience with MaxMax. After the better part of a year during which he became completely unresponsive, I've eventually initiated a court case to get my camera back. Then he sent it back — obviously having been disassembled and with a post-it note that the sensor is broken. Indeed, it is. If you search the web and review sites like Google, TrustPilot, etc you will find many similar experiences. I wish I had found those testimonials before I decided.

my approach for monochrome images is actually not to do it in the camera. I’ve owned a monochrome Leica and It was very good (other than the fungus growing in the sensor) , and behaved much like a leica loaded with Plus-X. it also shipped with a license for SilverEfex from DxO labs (and for Lightroom ). If I start with an image from a color sensor, I can apply the various color filters to images as i wish - with a monochrome capture applying color filters to the image in post obviously does nothing, so I need to commit to a certain color filters while shooting. Note, color filters on b+w film (sensor) are a contrast and rendering tool…in the final image the color of the filter is lightened, the opposite colors darkened…i think a lot of people love the drama of big fluffy clouds exposed b&w with a red filter to darken the sky. Green filter and sometimes blue filter is cool for portrait and people pictures. I later sold the monochrom, but I keep using the SilverEfex software. (SilverEfex lets you do a LOT more than simply apply color filters, it has presets for most any classic film type you‘d want to emulate, borders, customizable film curves, etc.

arn_becker said:

There was some mention of MaxMax in this thread, so I wanted to share my experience with them. I've had a disastrously bad, very expensive, very stressful experience with MaxMax. After the better part of a year during which he became completely unresponsive, I've eventually initiated a court case to get my camera back. Then he sent it back — obviously having been disassembled and with a post-it note that the sensor is broken. Indeed, it is. If you search the web and review sites like Google, TrustPilot, etc you will find many similar experiences. I wish I had found those testimonials before I decided.

Click to expand...

Thanks for that report. I had long thought about getting their modified Canon 5DS and more recently wondered about converting a Hasselblad CFV50ii now that the price is dropping on those… (but I placate myself with the flexibility of doing the conversion in post with SilverFX). Your experience is enough to finally lay that to rest.

Rockaway Studios said:

my approach for monochrome images is actually not to do it in the camera. I’ve owned a monochrome Leica and It was very good (other than the fungus growing in the sensor) , and behaved much like a leica loaded with Plus-X. it also shipped with a license for SilverFX from DxO labs (and for Lightroom ). If I start with an image from a color sensor, I can apply the various color filters to images as i wish - with a monochrome capture applying color filters to the image in post obviously does nothing, so I need to commit to a certain color filters while shooting. Note, color filters on b+w film (sensor) are a contrast and rendering tool…in the final image the color of the filter is lightened, the opposite colors darkened…i think a lot of people love the drama of big fluffy clouds exposed b&w with a red filter to darken the sky. Green filter and sometimes blue filter is cool for portrait and people pictures. I later sold the monochrom, but I keep using the SilverFX software. (Silver FX lets you do a LOT more than simply apply color filters, it has presets for most any classic film type you‘d want to emulate, borders, customizable film curves, etc.

Click to expand...

I think you are spot on, I have used my Pentax K 2000 in monochrome mode for travel, but when compared to post processing I do find there to be any difference. Maybe if I had a monochrome sensor, but I don't think it is worth the expense. The value to using monochrome mode on the K 2000 is getting feedback as I take the images.

The fundamental problem lies in the fact that the R-G-B sensels are converted to pixels with a very uniform response across the full visible spectrum of light, while even panchromatic emulsions to not have a straight line response across the spectrum. So the 'best' response is from cameras which the manufacturer has designed in film emulation responses, but Fuji cameras have no B&W simulations. only Fuji color emulsions
Postprocessing with SilverFX is probably the best method.

I would buy the DSLR with the best optics I could afford, shoot RAW and use NIK Silver Efex Pro to convert to B&W, giving me some built-in presets or enabling me to work the image to my preferences.

wiltw said:

..... but Fuji cameras have no B&W simulations. only Fuji color emulsions
....

Click to expand...

I'm not a Fuji digital camera user but, I'm, pretty sure that Fuji's in-camera film simulations include one called, "Acros".

wiltw said:

The fundamental problem lies in the fact that the R-G-B sensels are converted to pixels with a very uniform response across the full visible spectrum of light, while even panchromatic emulsions to not have a straight line response across the spectrum

Click to expand...

Firstly, this isn't entirely accurate to begin with. The response of the R, G and B subpixels is non-linear, and so is the compound response of a compound pixel. It has peaks and valleys. The linearity is likely on par with modern panchromatic B&W emulsions. Secondly, if you start with a digitally captured color image, you can selectively suppress or amplify the channels to your heart's content, and even induce non-linear responses per channel. Some aspects of some films may be difficult or impossible to emulate digitally. E.g. an extended red-response (e.g. Fomapan 400) cannot be 'faked' digitally if the sensor isn't sensitive to those wavelengths - although in practice, slightly boosting red or suppressing G and B will accomplish an effect that's nearly indistinguishable from the real thing.

I am going to slightly revise my original statement re:monochrome cameras as I learned something interesting…specifically the Phase One Achromatic backs not only have bayer filter removed (or never installed), but they also do not have an IR cut filter over the sensor…they just have a piece of plain optical glass to protect the sensor. This means that for shooting normal, visible light black and white you’d need to run a IR cut(“hot mirror”) filter over yours lens…and to do infrared photography you can just run the appropriate high-pass filter for the wavelength, and do the normal infrared focus adjustment. I know my old Leica monochrome could not do that, dunno if any of the other Monochrome cameras on the market do that, other than those modified by Kolari or MaxMax. I think that’s a moderately cool feature.

vanislandguy said:

I have been on a hunt of finding an older camera. An older dslr that has the best jpg ( out of camera ) monochrome profile looking almost like it was shot on film. I heard the 5d classic does well. What about specification? A CCD vs CMOS? Full frame or APSC? Low 10 or high 30 mega pixels camera is best? Can anyone go into clinical depth into this topic with links and maybe some comparison photos? I would like to see a combination of photographers give their experience or input. My goal is to buy a camera but want to make sure I buy the right one.

What about older DSLR's being turned into monochrome? Taking off the bayer filter. Is this a good way to go? Who might do this in Canada? So much here to talk about. Thanks

Click to expand...

Of course, the Leica Monochrome comes to mind. On the other hand, I was able to modify all the settings in the Nikon D800 to mimic the look of the Leica Monochrome very well