• Welcome to Photrio!
    Registration is fast and free. Join today to unlock search, see fewer ads, and access all forum features.
    Click here to sign up

I'm a noob, wanna help me?

Joined
Jan 21, 2003
Messages
15,715
Location
Switzerland
Format
Multi Format
This is good advice. Processing film is not difficult, but it takes a lot of practice to actually understand all of the variables.

The internet is becoming a crap source of reliable information. Anything published in a library is trustworthy and a good place to start. At least it's been filtered.
Most of what you find online is opinion.

 
Joined
Jan 21, 2003
Messages
15,715
Location
Switzerland
Format
Multi Format
Ah, the things I take for granted.

Can you order books via Amazon or similar source? Perhaps find publications from Kodak or Ilford (the source)?

This is a good place to start:
Ilford
Kodak

Those two links should get you to places with documented information published by the manufacturer. It's a good start to study those sources.

Sorry about the assumption above.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
OP
OP

funkpilz

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Sep 6, 2008
Messages
184
Format
35mm
No problem. In fact, I think it's a travesty that I would have to actually get into a car (don't have a license yet) and drive for like half an hour to get to a library to get some books. Kinda shows you how highly education is valued in our society
I've actually read Langford and Adams, most of it pretty thoroughly, and especially the latter has been very helpful. The only thing I have problems with is troubleshooting, which I find is rather hard to do through reading books.
And thanks for the links - although I've already gone through the Ilford one, which has proven to be extremely valuable.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

2F/2F

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Apr 29, 2008
Messages
8,031
Location
Los Angeles,
Format
Multi Format
Try E-Bay for some books. Old textbooks are the best, as they are very cheap, and the basic info hasn't changed (just materials available have changed). I think the one I mentioned earlier is a decent read, and often sells for peanuts. There are some used 3rd Ed. copies on Amazon for about $20 plus shipping, but I'll bet you could do better on E-Bay.
 

Rick-in-LB

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Aug 16, 2008
Messages
57
Location
Long Beach C
Format
35mm
One thing is when switched from digital to analog I read a lot of books and watched videos on the internet. Freestyle has a good book on learning how to do film, it is actually an instructional book for school.
Keep an eye on your agitations. Don't be so rough because this will add to large grain, this is what I have experienced and read about. Also don't short change yourself on the rinse stage. I have found that the rinse does go a long way in your final negative, trust me I found out the hard way on this.
2F/2F does have a good point, actually a couple. Read some literature on the film process. You can ask all the questions but until you actually process a few rolls , then you will start to understand. What I do now is blow off a cheap roll of film and play with it to see what effect time and concentrations will have.
 
OP
OP

funkpilz

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Sep 6, 2008
Messages
184
Format
35mm
You can ask all the questions but until you actually process a few rolls , then you will start to understand. What I would do now is blow off a cheap roll of film and play with it to see what effect time and concentrations will have.
I've done all that. Seriously, am I asking retarded questions?
 

2F/2F

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Apr 29, 2008
Messages
8,031
Location
Los Angeles,
Format
Multi Format
"Is there a specific amount and timing of the agitations as you develop?"

I think that is the main question that is "retarded" (though that not how I would personally describe it). The other ones make sense to ask, even after having read a textbook or taking a class. Asking about water instead of an acid stop bath makes sense. Asking about how far you can push a film makes sense. However, the first one made me skip the rest of the post, so I never even saw the other two until later. Any textbook has this information, every manufacturer publishes this information, and every film photo class teaches this, and often the very first week of class. Additionally, there are already enough Internet sources with this information that we don't need to ask it any more. Additionally, how on Earth have you processed film before if you don't know this?
 
Joined
Jan 21, 2003
Messages
15,715
Location
Switzerland
Format
Multi Format
OK. Here goes a hopefully helpful reply.

Agitation - most standard times are based on one agitation cycle per minute. But Kodak and Agfa recommend agitating every 30 seconds. What's the difference? If you agitate more often, more fresh developer will come in contact with the film emulsion, and the result is more overall contrast in the negative. Basically, we can deduce that agitation largely affects your midtones and highlights.
You will do yourself a favor to try for yourself what agitation and time you should use. Here's how you want to do it. Take APX 100 for example; you need two rolls to do this. Set the camera to EI 100, and bracket at EI25, 50, and 100 for every shot for the full roll. Then develop according to the manufacturer's recommendations. If you dig hard, you will find the APX 100 product data sheet somewhere. Then look at the negatives and determine which exposure has "enough" shadow detail for your printing / scanning process. Then shoot the subsequent roll at that EI, whether it be 50, 60, 80, or 100. Now you want to process about 1/3 of the roll at a time. You want to make sure you are able to get the midtones and highlights where you want them.
And - this is where agitation comes in. If you slow down agitation to every second, or even every third minute, the area in the negative with high level of exposure will develop slower. This helps to soften the contrast while getting a long enough development time that any mistakes you make will be less significant. Time and agitation are your friends in making good negatives, and using agitation to control different lighting scenarios is something that will eventually become second nature to you.
Try to explore the potential of one type of film, and see how you can alter the results by using the same developer in a different way. Tweak it, learn it inside out, experiment, feel your way. Eventually you'll be prepared for any lighting situation, and you'll be confident in addressing how you treat each situation and make great negatives that print easily without much, if any, acrobatics in the darkroom.
The recommended development times online are personal, from people with different lighting scenarios, different light meters, different metering techniques, heck different pH in their water supply. All of which affects the outcome. So please do your own testing. And if you are looking for start times, the first roll processed as above will tell you if the recommendation you got was good or not.
The important follow-up piece to this is to print your negatives (or scan if you're working digitally) to really see if you're doing the right thing or not. And do this often. That's how the process comes full circle, that's how you learn to 'see' effectively.

Pushing APX 100? Why? You've got HP5.

Washing film? The Ilford wash sequence of rinse, 5 agitations, 10 agitations, 20 agitations (all with fresh water exchange) and then running water for a few minutes has worked for many.
I do it that way, but use a film washer for about ten minutes after I've done the Ilford cycle. It seems to work for me so far.

Good luck.

 

Rick-in-LB

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Aug 16, 2008
Messages
57
Location
Long Beach C
Format
35mm
I've done all that. Seriously, am I asking retarded questions?

Heck the questions are not "Retarded" as you say it. I just got back into film again after a long layoff and some of my questions probably made some say" what a dumb question". You will get some answers here but like I mentioned is just go out an burn a roll and see what happens. Get the cheap film though. I did not know about Freestyle until I went through a few bucks.